Alan Walker - Posted - 08/27/2009:  03:41:49

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Hi,

My Goldtone has just started buzzing but only when I fret the 2nd & 4th strings.

There is no buzzing when the strings are played open. I have adjusted the spider so it sits straight (in fact I've moved it in all directions) but the buzz is unaffected by my efforts. Could it be the tension screw? If so, how much should I turn it and in which direction?

Thanks

Alan

DaveInAL - Posted - 08/27/2009:  06:51:18

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Can you tell where the buzzing is coming from?

Dave Thier
Athens, AL

Alan Walker - Posted - 08/27/2009:  08:31:36

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It seems to be from the cone/spider area.

phil dean - Posted - 08/27/2009:  08:41:30

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Have you checked the 3rd string to see if the wrapped brass of the string has separated? You could be getting a sympathetic buzz from the other strings.

masteresoguitars.com

alaya - Posted - 08/27/2009:  09:07:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by phil dean

Have you checked the 3rd string to see if the wrapped brass of the string has separated? You could be getting a sympathetic buzz from the other strings.

masteresoguitars.com

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I think my PBSM was doing that. It started buzzing sometimes just out of the blue. I changed the strings and it went away. No problems since.

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Edited by - alaya on 08/27/2009 09:08:44

jmb3450 - Posted - 08/27/2009:  10:47:38

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I'd recommend you try changing strings before making any adjustments to the tension screw.

Jim

DaveInAL - Posted - 08/27/2009:  13:23:29

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As others have recommended, the first thing I would do is change strings.

You can check the tension screw by backing it off CCW until it is loose. Then screw it in carefully until you just feel it engage. from that point, go 1/4 to 1/2 (at most) turn until the loose rattling sound stops. Your buzz may or may not go away. Don't keep tightening the screw trying to get it to go away.

It could be one of the legs of the spider is not level and is buzzing against the cone at certain frequencies.

It may be other things, but it is hard to diagnose without hearing it.


Dave Thier
Athens, AL

Slideman1939 - Posted - 08/27/2009:  23:45:31

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Slideman suggests: Experience proves that Alaya comments above are correct regarding winding seperation from the third string. It is the most heavily played/ picked HARD. It is pulled off and hammered on.Sometimes it breaks. Sometimes it gets "THUNKY". That thunky sound means the string winding has seperated from adhesion to it's central core -REPLACE IT. That is WHY Paul Beard invented the special .028 and heavier special .029. A fatter CORE and a tighter winding to address the most common Dobro string problem. It's effectiveness is so good his (Resophonic Outfitter's) website NOW sells the item as an open stock single string-- instead of buying it as part of the whole set. Everybody loves it because it works. Goodbye "THUNK". A core-seperated THUNK is as bad as if the 3rd string broke outright. The other comment (Davelynal) on screw tension is exactly correct. Most folks over tighten (stressing the cone) hoping for improved tone. The cone was designed to VIBRATE to mechanically amplify the sound. If you tighten the screw too tight you impede the vibration and stress the cone and get inferior sound. The "Rule-of-the-screw" has always been as LOOSE as possible without buzz nor rattle---so it can do it's job (VIBRATE).. Slideman ANOLOGY: imagine a drummer with a CYMBOL sitting on a holder --vertical metal stalk--with a loosely adjusted thumbscrew. The less tension cymbol says (bright) "TISH" when struck. NOW picture an overly tensioned cymbol (tight thumbscrew---or drummer holding the edge of the cymbol to dampen it) and instead of a (bright) "TISH", you get a dull "TOOSH" sound (overly tightened screw repressing vibration). It's the same principle that Davelynal is explaining in the previous comment. My explanation is anal, and simplistic, but true. For 25 years I have been trying to explain to new players that an overly tight cone screw that says "TOOSH" in not right--and a loose screw that says "TISH" is perfect. SOME LISTENERS SEE THE ANALOGY of the vibrating drum cymbol tension AND the vibrating Dobro cone looser screw tension. And some folks don't get it all , or won't listen, and tighten that puppy down so tight that they warp the cone and screw up the sound. People have had opinions about vibrations and screw tensions for years. Next time you talk to somebody that doesn't get it (cone vibration) the Slideman suggests you explain the drum CYMBOL and the "TISH" bright sound vs. the TOOOSH thunky sound. It's a dumb (but TRUE ) analogy, that helps people understand. The folks that HATE common sense like this are the sellers and spinners of new cones that sell thousands of dollars per year REPLACEMENT cones to newbies who just had to crank up that screw for better tone.

Alan Walker - Posted - 08/28/2009:  02:25:54

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OK, thanks a lot for all the input, especially the nut tensioning stuff. I will re-string the reso and see if this helps but the strings are the Beard 29s and they've only been on the guitar for a month or so. Having said that, the guitar only started buzzing a few days after I went from a set of D'Addarios to the Beards.

Great, informative input.

Alan Walker - Posted - 08/28/2009:  04:52:43

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Well I've changed the strings, adjusted the tensioner nut as advised but no difference at all.

I've booked it into the local shop for next week. They seem to think that the cone is probably not seated correctly. I'll keep you posted. All information gathered is useful to others in the future.

benspinks - Posted - 08/28/2009:  05:43:29

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Hi Alan

Not sure how the cone could have become un-seated unless all strings were taken off at once? If not the only thing that could unseat it would be a pretty big nock. Also, if it was cone based i would expect to hear the buzz on more than just two selected strings (i think?). It could be that the larger 2nd and 4th of the 29's have had an effect on the nut slots. I used J42's on my goldtone and after going between them and the GHS Scheerhorn set it developed a buzz on the top string. I later found out that the heavy GHS had worn the slot so that the .016 of the j's had too much room to virate in the slot. Just a thought, but it seems too much of a coincidence that you started having problems after going to the 29's.

Cheers
Ben

DaveInAL - Posted - 08/28/2009:  05:56:09

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There are so many things that can cause a buzz or rattle in a resonator guitar. Ben has hit on the next things I would check.

If the strings were all taken off during the string change, there is the opportunity for the cone/spider to shift. Also the different gauges of the two sets (J42vs Beard 29) could have slightly different loading on the cone/spider that could uncover a marginal condition such as a spider leg a bit out of flat.

Also look at the tailpiece. Is it padded underneath so that it doesn't touch the coverplate?

Good luck and hope you get it fixed quickly and easily!

Dave Thier
Athens, AL

Alan Walker - Posted - 08/28/2009:  08:05:19

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Thanks for the advice.

The strings are always changed one at a time. I don't remember giving it a knock but having said that, I'm travelling with the reso in the car every week so it's possible. I think the buzzing has gradually spread to all the 4 central strings with only the low G and high D not affected. I can see your point about a buzz arising after going from the heavier gauge down to a lighter string, but I' ve gone from the 29s down to J42s with no buzzing and then back up to 29s which are now buzzing. A brand new set of 29s has not cured the problem.

I've checked the tailpiece. It has a roll of black rubber/plastic material between it and the coverplate. There's no contact.

So I'm thinking it's probably the cone so lets hope the shop can sort it.

It's normally such a lovely sounding instrument, that this buzz is really getting me down and I'm not picking it up to play as often as I should.

I really can't say how much I appreciate all the advice you guys have come up with. Great forum. Great people.

DaveInAL - Posted - 08/28/2009:  12:36:06

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Alan - for future reference, here is a link to Greg McKenna's website with troubleshooting tips:
mckennaguitars.com/setup_repairs.htm (scroll down)

Thanks to Greg for posting this info for us!

Dave Thier
Athens, AL

Dukasyo - Posted - 08/29/2009:  11:57:07

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Maybe try runnning the strings under the bottom of the tailpiece instead of over the top, or vice-versa, whatever the current situation.

Mike D.

Alan Walker - Posted - 09/02/2009:  03:40:43

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The Gold Tone's singing again! Back from the shop today and all sorted. Apparently the cone wasn't seated properly and a couple of machine-heads were loose. What a relief. Thanks again for all your help guys.

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Edited by - Alan Walker on 09/02/2009 03:41:22

benspinks - Posted - 09/02/2009:  04:02:01

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Hi Alan

That's great news. Would you mind if i ask where you took it? Dobro guys are rare in the UK, as you know, so it's always nice to know that there are actually people who can do work on them.

Cheers
Ben

DaveInAL - Posted - 09/02/2009:  07:24:52

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Glad to hear you're up and picking again!

Dave Thier
Athens, AL

Alan Walker - Posted - 09/02/2009:  07:46:26

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quote:

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Originally posted by benspinks

Hi Alan

That's great news. Would you mind if i ask where you took it? Dobro guys are rare in the UK, as you know, so it's always nice to know that there are actually people who can do work on them.

Cheers
Ben

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Hi Ben,

I took it to Mansons in Exeter.

mansons.co.uk/

where it was sorted by their tech, Tim. He obviously knows what he's doing and has experience of resos. It only cost me £17 including a re-string which I though was very reasonable.

The shop has a very good reputaion in the area and several friends have bought instruments from them and have been impressed with there knowledge and standard of service.

Regards

Alan