Jaymom - Posted - 09/15/2009:  04:46:46

I've noticed that some people have screens in their sound holes and others do not. Im wondering if there is a reason for removing them.

Jaymom

Dobro Player Want-to-Be

XWIND - Posted - 09/15/2009:  05:37:36

Screen and F holes are cosmetic only. They don't produce any sound through them. Sound is produced through the cone, that's why it's called a resonator guitar. Screen holes are easier to cut during production of the top piece, where the F holes need to be cut with a scroll saw (YOU MUST BE GOOD WITH THE SAW TO GET THEM EQUAL) or have a high pressure die made to stamp them out. Have you ever noticed Dobro players on stage place the mike directly over the resonator and never near the holes. Hope this answers your Q? PS don't remove them.
XWIND

Jaymom - Posted - 09/15/2009:  07:37:53

Well that makes sense. I thought maybe the screens get filled with dust and thats why some people have removed them. I hope mine has them installed.

Jaymom

Dobro Player Want-to-Be

CentralMO - Posted - 09/15/2009:  07:41:03

My Gold Tone is louder and has a better tone with the screens out. I had several friends verify the difference. No screens especially brought out the sound of the bass strings.

Jaymom - Posted - 09/15/2009:  07:48:06

The screens being absent must bring out a more hollow sound. This is interesting and the kind of thing I have been wondering about. Thank you CentralMO.



Dobro Player Want-to-Be

bbjork - Posted - 09/15/2009:  08:08:38

I took mine out a long time ago and like CentralMO said it increased the volume, bass and improved the tone of my DeNeve.

bbjork
"Use the talents you possess; the woods would be very silent indeed if no birds sang but the best"

Bradskey - Posted - 09/15/2009:  10:49:12

Increased volume and bass response it\s the common reason. They make the little round rings without the screens, you can just swap them for your old screens.

El Dobro - Posted - 09/15/2009:  12:35:46

Sound change from the screens removal seems to vary from guitar to guitar. It gave me a sound I liked more on one of my guitars, but another one didn't seem to change at all, so I left the screens in it.

Don
myspace.com/eldobro
myspace.com/pasttimesband
pasttimesbluegrassband.com
youtube.com/user/pasttimesbluegrass

Erik Waynesmith - Posted - 09/15/2009:  16:42:05

Removing soundhole screens (or preferably replacing screened soundhole covers with unscreened trim rings) changes the primary bass resonance frequency of a resonator guitar's body by retuning the Helmholtz resonator formed by air enclosed inside the body and the soundholes. Depending on the amount of air inside the body, its internal baffle design and the low frequency resonance characteristics of a particular reso's spider-cone assembly and body/neck components, the effects of removing soundhole screens can vary anywhere from very subtle to quite noticeable... and may or may not be heard as an improvement by the player and listeners.

Erik @ Advanced Music Technology

DNickell - Posted - 09/15/2009:  17:30:23

What he said.

___________________________________________________


How do you know you can't if you never tried?

El Dobro - Posted - 09/15/2009:  17:45:03

In a nutshell, experiment and see what sound you like.

Don
myspace.com/eldobro
myspace.com/pasttimesband
pasttimesbluegrassband.com
youtube.com/user/pasttimesbluegrass

Alan Walker - Posted - 09/16/2009:  03:34:54

quote:

---

Originally posted by DNickell

What he said.

ROFL

___________________________________________________


How do you know you can't if you never tried?

---

Tom Jr. - Posted - 09/16/2009:  05:42:21

I played several Beard models at a trade show and Howard had me play a bit and then pulled out the screens and play some more. Very marked difference in bass response. More sound without the screens.

I built my own reso last year and cut special holes (horse head silhouettes) for the sound holes. I could not easily screen these holes so I did not. The sound is very full.

Don't squat with your spurs on.

Edited by - Tom Jr. on 09/16/2009 05:58:45

Slideman1939 - Posted - 09/16/2009:  08:17:17

Slideman suggests: experimenting with screen in/screen out and sound variations from same is a recent thing. A more basic question is WHY are there round sound holes (either screened or unscreened). Sound vibrations from the bottom (underside) of the cone needed to be released from the body. John D. could have used F- holes for same purpose. However when John and Rudy D. broke away from the other 3 brothers in 1928 they wanted a different look/ different features to compete with the 3 brothers who remained with National Co. John & Rudy decided on the Greek LYRE as being the company symbol ( look at the Dobro decal). In an art deco design touch they wanted some of the insrument appearence to echo the lyre. AGAIN LOOK AT THE DECAL. The round sound screens represent the upper left and right edges at the top of the LYRE. The center body of the lyre is represented by the coverplate. AGAIN LOOK AT THE DECAL. The 3 small holes in the body (between the soundscreens) represent the 3 rond balls on top of the 3 LYRE "rods" in the center. SO the round sound screen holes are functional. They could have been F holes and released the same sound energy..for the same acoustic purpose. HOWEVER it was elected (for design purposes) to make round sound screen holes (two) and 3 small rod/ball holes (3) part of the design. The round 2 sound screen holes CAN affect the tone with screen removal. Most agree the 3 small holes are 100% design related (to the LYRE picture) and have no acoustic purpose. The 3 small holes (b etween the sound screens) were NOT there on the Regal-Dobros----the mid 1930's Regal built under license---simply as a labor savings.The Regal plant elected to save time by NOT drilling the 3 small holes on model 27 while the California dobro plant continued to drill them. But both plants continued to use the 2 and 7/8 inch round soundscreen holes in the same position on the top. So the tone can be affected, in a minor way, on SOME instruments, by screen removal. And the REASON it is a round screen hole in the first place has to do with the design SYMBOLISM of the Greek LYRE. AND THAT IS THE OLD TIME HISTORY. The brothers were clever and competing against Gibson and Martin. You had to be clever to sell "new-idea" reso guitars for $49 to $79 at the height of the Depression.

Jaymom - Posted - 09/16/2009:  08:32:56

Thanks Slideman, that made for good reading. I've Googled the daylights out of the idea of sound holes in dobro's and your post is above and beyond anything I found. Thanks again.

Jaymom

Dobro Player Want-to-Be

Slideman1939 - Posted - 09/17/2009:  23:37:16

Addendum to above-- ,my memory slipping-- (3) THREE brothers in 1928 broke away to new company Dobro---with new single cone and spider to compete with the other 2 brothers with the Tri cone (and later with 9 --1/2 inch single WHINEY cone favored by blues people. John and Rudy and Ed broke away to Dobro. In that time period many Eastern European men were named EMIL and it fashionable to be "immigrant Americanized".Emil was not fashionable and Emil Dopyrea strongly wanted to be "ED". The info about the Greek LYRE symbology started (reverse to your question) about a reader inquiry to a national magazine ( Frets ?? Late 1980's) on the WHY 3 small holes--between the soundscreens. The explanation, from a reader reply, who knew John Dopyera, and the Greek LYRE symbolisms, and the 3 brother desire NOT TO DO F-Holes with their new invention vs. the other 2 brothers is the reply to round sound screens. The Real difference was a sailors hat CONCAVE cone with spider VS the CONVEX Chinese Hat with biscuit cone 9 & 1/2 inch. The "B.S." about the F-hole/ vs. screens means the 2 National brothers stuck with F holes (or lattice work on the metal Tri-cone) while the 3 breakaway brothers devised the design scheme of the Greek LYRE and created Round (2) screenholes with "decorative"/ non acoustic 3 holes drilled (described above)/ Greek LYRE theme. SUMMARY- my earlier remarks are correct and non-revised. SO SOUNDHOLES. ARE ROUND BECAUSE 3 BREAKAWAY BROTHERS WANTED TO DIFFERENTIATE (follow the Lyre theme) From the "F-hole" brothers in the old company. It is amazing how THEY (the combined briothers after 1932 dominated TWO DIFFERENT markets, 2 different patents, 2 diffrent cones.Readers are encouraged to look at Notecannons.com--study the other side of the fence.

Jaymom - Posted - 09/18/2009:  06:09:55

Slideman....that link is worth its weight in gold. It doesnt open directly but if you drop the --study it opens nicely. Once it opened I did what it said and refreshed the page to see the different pictures. This also allows you to hear different background music which again is priceless. I have read all it has to offer plus the 20 pages of "Michael Messlers Forum". (You just have to click on the link which is part of the first line) . I always said I was born 25 years too late and those pictures help confirm my feelings. And thanks for the Addendum too. Good reading.

P.S. I just got an email from a guy here in Ocala, FL. who has a Epiphone for sale. Going to go see it right now.

Jaymom

Dobro Player Want-to-Be

Edited by - Jaymom on 09/18/2009 06:33:11