DCMak - Posted - 09/02/2012:  17:22:36

Hello everyone. 

I'm a long time guitar player, and I wanted to try to learn reso. So I bought a cheap Regal a few months ago to see if I could play this thing, and I'm really liking it. I'd like to stick with it. But this particular one has some problems, and I know I'll want to upgrade at some point in the next few months.

The Wechter Scheerhorn and any PB Gold tone are both in the same price range (700-900), and I'm wondering, whats the difference? I know it all comes down to taste, and I know I may have my own opinion. But in your words, how do you feel about these two? Also is there a huge difference in construction? And how does that affect things? 

mobuzz - Posted - 09/02/2012:  18:22:54

Hi there DC. If you're a first time poster, welcome. I can't speak to the Beard, but there are folks on here that can and from what I've gleaned from them the Gold Tone is a Chi-Com manufacture. Some are set-up at Beard in Hagerstown, MD and some are not. You can tell by the label inside them. Stay away from the one's that are not. The ones that are set-up by Beard I've heard nothing but good about. If you're not aware, set-up is as important as build, maybe more.

As for the W/S, it was my first reso and though I have an higher grade instrument now, I still have the W/S6510F I started with and still play it often. Though they're Chinese manufacture as well, all are set up in Abraham Wechter's shop in the U.S. This instrument will still make musical notes with the bar so close to the palm rest that you can barely get a pick on the string. Tone is true from one end of the scale to the other and the sustain is better than my other reso. I have zero complaints about it.

Good luck in your quest.

mobuzz

kimbro - Posted - 09/02/2012:  18:44:25

Hi Dcmak,

Well I used to own a Goldtone but have not owned or played a wechter, but from what I've learned by reading reviews from people here is that they are pretty even in quality and both get good reviews and are considered to be very good entry level guitars and even something you would be happy with for quite a long time. As far as the differences in constuction the ones you mentioned were in the 700-900 dollar range would be laminate guitars and not solid wood although both companies do offer solid wood models for a bit more money. about 1100.00 I believe. The other differences that I know of are that the Goldtones all have soundwells in them where as the Wechters have sound posts giving them a more open sound chamber. As far as sound differences I think the Goldtones are a bit more traditional sounding than the wechters. I'm only basing that on what I've read.Like I said I've never played a Wechter. I would think that you would probly be happy with either and they both would be quite a step up from your Regal. Hope this helps a little. Someone else will probably be able to help you more. Good luck.

kimbro - Posted - 09/02/2012:  18:51:26

Hey Mobuzz,

I type so slow that I guess you got your post in while i was typing. Glad you mentioned about the Beard setup. I had forgotten about that part with the Goldtones.Although the one I had was not setup by Beard and it was a good playing guitar imo. But I suppose ti might have been better if it had the Beard setup.

screech - Posted - 09/02/2012:  19:02:52

Nothing against Goldtone or W/S ( I owned a Goldtone and was very happy with it) but keep in mind that for $1,000.00 you can get an American made reso from Tom Warner at Appalachian Instruments or Steve at Redline Resophonics. If you can afford the extra dollars I think it's a good move to give these two guys a look.

DCMak - Posted - 09/02/2012:  19:22:30

I appreciate the thought screech.

I've been to Steve's shop at Redline, and I loved his stuff. But I didn't get the impression that I could get anything for less than 1000.
I saw a wechter scheerhorn for 749 at Corner Music in downtown nashville the other day, and I know the PB goldtones are around the same price. The cheapest Redline that I saw was 1200.

kimbro - Posted - 09/02/2012:  19:36:23

Dc,

I did'nt mention the Redlines in my earlier post because you had asked about the others. But fwiw, imo, and keep in mind I've owned a Goldtone and I now own 3 Redlines, the extra 450.00 it would take to get the Redline would be money well spent in the long run. But I do understand what it's like to be on a tight budget if that's the case.

Webb - Posted - 09/02/2012:  19:37:12

quote:

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Originally posted by kimbro

Hey Mobuzz,

I type so slow that I guess you got your post in while i was typing. Glad you mentioned about the Beard setup. I had forgotten about that part with the Goldtones.Although the one I had was not setup by Beard and it was a good playing guitar imo. But I suppose ti might have been better if it had the Beard setup.

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When I bought my Gold Tone, it wasn't set up by Beard either and it sounded so good I couldn't walk out of the store without it. For $550 it was a steel (sic). I took it to Paul to have the pickup installed and they did their setup and it was even better. But there's not a thing wrong with those out of the box aside from the fact that they're made in China. Also, there's nothing wrong with laminate on reso. The Mike Auldridge by Beard is made with Finland Birch plywood, and to my ears, it's the best sounding out of the box Reso out there. The wood guitars open up with time and some sound comparable, but as Paul Beard explains, I reso is different from a guitar in that it is essentially a speaker cabinet. The plies make it very warm right out of the box. The Gold Tone isn't in the same league by any means. Not as much bottom or top end, really dies above the 12th fret. But it blows my OMI Dobro away and sounds much better than a Hound Dog in my opinion. I haven't heard the Redline, but I hear a lot of good about it. But at the end of the day, it's really about what trips your trigger. If an instrument doesn't inspire me, I don't want it n matter what name is on it, and if it does inspire me, I don't care who's name is on it or what it's made of. I love good looking guitars, but I'll take tone over cool wood any day, even though I'm and old sawmiller and really appreciate a good piece of wood.

kimbro - Posted - 09/02/2012:  19:43:14

quote: Well said Webb. I agree 100 percent.

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Originally posted by Webb

quote:

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Originally posted by kimbro

Hey Mobuzz,

I type so slow that I guess you got your post in while i was typing. Glad you mentioned about the Beard setup. I had forgotten about that part with the Goldtones.Although the one I had was not setup by Beard and it was a good playing guitar imo. But I suppose ti might have been better if it had the Beard setup.

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When I bought my Gold Tone, it wasn't set up by Beard either and it sounded so good I couldn't walk out of the store without it. For $550 it was a steel (sic). I took it to Paul to have the pickup installed and they did their setup and it was even better. But there's not a thing wrong with those out of the box aside from the fact that they're made in China. Also, there's nothing wrong with laminate on reso. The Mike Auldridge by Beard is made with Finland Birch plywood, and to my ears, it's the best sounding out of the box Reso out there. The wood guitars open up with time and some sound comparable, but as Paul Beard explains, I reso is different from a guitar in that it is essentially a speaker cabinet. The plies make it very warm right out of the box. The Gold Tone isn't in the same league by any means. Not as much bottom or top end, really dies above the 12th fret. But it blows my OMI Dobro away and sounds much better than a Hound Dog in my opinion. I haven't heard the Redline, but I hear a lot of good about it. But at the end of the day, it's really about what trips your trigger. If an instrument doesn't inspire me, I don't want it n matter what name is on it, and if it does inspire me, I don't care who's name is on it or what it's made of. I love good looking guitars, but I'll take tone over cool wood any day, even though I'm and old sawmiller and really appreciate a good piece of wood.

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DCMak - Posted - 09/02/2012:  21:53:15

So even though we've gotten away from the whole wechter vs goldtone thing, this is what I'm gathering...

The wechter and Beard GoldTone are both good, and the difference is opinion. But the wechter always has a good setup, and the goldtone may not always have the beard setup.
And if I can afford it, I should spring for a redline.
I live in nashville, and I've been to the redline shop. Great stuff. I'm just not sure I want to spend that kind of money.

kimbro - Posted - 09/03/2012:  04:52:44

Dc,

I believe that's right on the Goldtone vs. Wechter. As far as the Redline that is my opinion. I think most would agree.

It's not to say that if you get a Goldtone that is setup by Goldtone that it will definately have a bad setup.It may or may not. But if it has a beard setup your certain that it will be a good one.

Webb - Posted - 09/03/2012:  07:10:16

quote:

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Originally posted by kimbro

Dc,

I believe that's right on the Goldtone vs. Wechter. As far as the Redline that is my opinion. I think most would agree.

It's not to say that if you get a Goldtone that is setup by Goldtone that it will definately have a bad setup.It may or may not. But if it has a beard setup your certain that it will be a good one.

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The thing about getting a Gold Tone without the set up is that if you can get a good buy on one, Beard will still set it up for you. I think they charge somewhere around $175, but it's an even better deal if you get the Fishman pickup installed. I paid just under $500 for the set up, the pickup and the Aura/Douglas pedal, which is not much more than just the pickup and pedal by themselves.

tigchrome - Posted - 09/03/2012:  07:36:37

DCMark,  I've played both, and own one.   The Gold Tone is my sons and he bought it from Beard. The setup was fine, no issues. The WS, I own, and the setup was terrible and had to spend several hundred $ to get it right. Now it's a fine box.  The difference in sound to ME is,  GT: more traditional with a good tone, but lacking in bass some what.   WS: open sound well with baffle. More "modern" sound. More volume than the GT, a different tone than the GT. Has a better bass response than the GT. Plays good after the new setup. Between the two I like the WS ONLY because I like the "modern sound" of the post & baffle vs the sound well. As far as playability, ummm the GT had it hands down until I had Bobby Wright setup the WS. Now they are comparable in that respect.  So in the long run if you buy a GT from Beard the setup will be spot on. If you buy a WS that has had no prior set up, you might need to have it set up by some one. If you like the traditional sound buy the GT from Beard.  If you favor the the more "modern" sound buy the WS.  As to the talk of Redline, if you can swing it, that would be your best bet by far IMOP.. But also, don't forget Tom Warner from Applalachian Guitars, He's only a phone call away.

Stringnut - Posted - 09/03/2012:  10:06:37

Here is my two cents: I have played both and wanted both badly when I first started playing. Either would do you just fine as everyone else here has said. In the end, I spent 2 years playing a standard acoustic guitar with a raised nut because I could not afford the GT or the WS because my wife was going to nursing school and not working. By the time she got out of school and started working again, I was sure I was not going to stop playing this instrument and my wife graciously allowed me to make a phone call to Steve Smith at Redline. I didn't buy a GT or a WS but I did get me a Redline and it was the best move I ever made. So, if you can make the Regal work a while longer, you might want to try and build your bank account up a bit more to cover the extra needed for a Redline (or an Appalachian). I would bet if you buy GT or WS, you will eventually be looking to upgrade again. By skipping that step, I've got a guitar I will be very happy with for a very long time. I may add more guitars but I won't get rid of my Redline. No need to upgrade that one in my opinion.

Dan

SamCy - Posted - 09/03/2012:  10:18:29

Appalachian Reso price for birch laminate: $995.



appalachianreso.com/

Lakland - Posted - 09/04/2012:  12:05:08

Hey I wanted to put my two cents worth in here. I have played Wechter, Goldtone Appalachian and Redline when I was on the hunt for a nice reso. I ended up having Steve build me a Redline and it was the best desision I could have made. I did spend a bit more money but I have a instrument that does not need any updates ever. It is beautiful and sounds great. I played a goldtone for 4 months and was ready to make a switch to a better reso...Steve is a great guy.

Lakland - Posted - 09/04/2012:  12:16:15

Here is a link to my guitar. Mine is the one mark "Blake" I think you will see how great Steve workmanship is...

resohangout.com/topic/27490

dwood1611 - Posted - 09/06/2012:  15:16:24

The PBS D Gold Tone that I have has been through the Beard shop to have the Fishman spider pickup installed. IT did not originally have the Beard setup that the poster above is talking about. With all due respect, he doesn't know what he is talking about when he says stay away from the ones that were not set up by Beard. The Gold Tone staff that sets up the ones from there were trained by Beard if I understood them correctly. The price is no different whether they came from either shop. This is the exact quote from the Gold Tone website.....

" Designed by legendary maker Paul Beard, this signature model guitar is hand made and provides unmatched tone in its price range. The Beard "open" soundwell body design utilizes genuine USA Beard cones & spiders. All Gold Tone Beard Signature Series feature USA assembly and setup by experienced luthiers using Beard cones & spiders. You can be assured of a perfect setup for maximum tone & playability."

Sometimes people on here just say what they have heard and don't have any idea what they are talking about.

SMenasco - Posted - 09/06/2012:  15:55:59

I had a PBS Deluxe before I got my Red Line. It was not set up by Beard. It was fine. I love the Red Line. However, the price of dwood's Gold Tone with the extras is a really great deal. It won't last long.

bustertheboy - Posted - 09/07/2012:  00:03:28

My PBS was not a Beard set up and I had to replace the bridge inserts. The slots were cut way too deep meaning when I played a chord the 3rd and 4th strings buzzed unless I used a huge amount of pressure on the bar. It also muffled the tone. The saddle height was also too low. Increasing the height increased volume and improved tone.

I'd be a bit careful of getting into the "don't have any idea what they are talking about" bit. I'm fairly experienced with set ups but not a pro and what I did with new bridge inserts made a substantial difference to tone. I also levelled the spider (some legs were about 1/8th inch higher than others). Rotating the cone for best bass also made a big difference.

Brett

BTW I agree the dwood PBS D is a deal worth looking into. My Appalachian solid curly maple was $1300- now that is a seriously nice guitar. To be fair though, I have family members who prefer the GT for the old style sound, while the Appy is my favourite.

Webb - Posted - 09/07/2012:  07:42:47

quote:

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Originally posted by bustertheboy

My PBS was not a Beard set up and I had to replace the bridge inserts. The slots were cut way too deep meaning when I played a chord the 3rd and 4th strings buzzed unless I used a huge amount of pressure on the bar. It also muffled the tone. The saddle height was also too low. Increasing the height increased volume and improved tone.



I'd be a bit careful of getting into the "don't have any idea what they are talking about" bit. I'm fairly experienced with set ups but not a pro and what I did with new bridge inserts made a substantial difference to tone. I also levelled the spider (some legs were about 1/8th inch higher than others). Rotating the cone for best bass also made a big difference.



Brett



BTW I agree the dwood PBS D is a deal worth looking into. My Appalachian solid curly maple was $1300- now that is a seriously nice guitar. To be fair though, I have family members who prefer the GT for the old style sound, while the Appy is my favourite.

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If a Gold Tone dealer is a Beard dealer then they know how to do the setup. Not all Gold Tone dealers are. The guy I bought mine from was not and it buzzed on some strings out of the box. He's a really good guitar tech and he fixed me right up and it sounded really good. But you are correct that they don't all sound that good out of the box, but with a minor tweaking they do.

jmb3450 - Posted - 09/07/2012:  11:11:20

I've got a Gold Tone PBSM that came from the Beard shop and am very happy with it.  I think what was meant by earlier posts recommending getting a Gold Tone set up by Beard is that in doing so you know you've got an optimal set up.  Howard who worked at Beard has said that only about 5% of the Gold Tones out there go through the Beard shop.  That doesn't mean that the others are set up badly, just that they're set up somewhere else.  Hopefully by a competent and skilled person to Paul's specifications, but the only way to be sure is to get it through Beard, a dealer who gets them through Beard, or a used one that was set up at Beard (which is what I got).  That's not to say you can't get one elsewhere that doesn't sound as good.  Dwood, if the Gold Tone you have is the same one you played on the recordings you've, it's a very nice sounding guitar.

Jim

frenchy - Posted - 09/07/2012:  12:21:19

Take a look at Lenny's "Hot Rod Steel" guitars. He sets them up in his shop in Santa Barbara. Call him-he's a great guy to talk to. You can hear his guitars on his web site. They're imports but he totally re-dos them.

va picker - Posted - 09/07/2012:  14:39:00

I've owned both the Beard PBSM & Wechter Scheerhorn 6524R & prefer the W/S because it was more of a modern sound. I was told by Beard that the PBSM cannot be setup for a modern sound, hence, why I bought the W/S. Via email, Abe Wechter told me that the 6524R has a Scheerhorn cone.

Webb - Posted - 09/09/2012:  14:09:08

quote:

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Originally posted by va picker

I've owned both the Beard PBSM & Wechter Scheerhorn 6524R & prefer the W/S because it was more of a modern sound. I was told by Beard that the PBSM cannot be setup for a modern sound, hence, why I bought the W/S. Via email, Abe Wechter told me that the 6524R has a Scheerhorn cone.

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I hear people talking about modern/traditional sound, and admittedly, my ears aren't that good any more, but I don't understand what the difference is. To me, when I play any resophonic guitar if I play traditional it sounds traditional and if I play modern it sounds modern. I mean, even the type of mic you use can make a difference and you don't always have a choice. When I was deciding what new reso to buy, I tried about 10 different manufacturers and with some manufacturers, I played everything they made. I didn't go out looking for a "modern" or "traditional" sound; I just went looking for that special guitar that inspired me like no other. When I found it, it sounded great to me no matter if I was playing traditional, modern, bluegrass, blues, jazz, swing. I'm not being a smart aleck here, I just really don't understand the distinction between modern and traditional.

Greg Booth - Posted - 09/09/2012:  14:50:42

Webb I agree, on a good guitar you can play a variety of styles and it always sounds good. It's mostly the player and the playing that makes it trad or modern. When I listen to the old Flat and Scruggs shows I do hear a different tone coming from Josh's dobro....very coney, metalic, less sustain, less bottom end than in today's modern guitars. I recently had a chance to play a JD Signature Beard back and forth with my Horn and it was very different, also coney and metalic. There is a substantial solid baffle in between the cone and the upper bout that seems to emphasize the direct sound of the cone and de-emphasize the sound of the guitar body. Just my opinion, and I'm not an accomplished traditional player, but it seems like the trad style with all the tremelo etc is associated with a coney, metalic guitar with less sustain. Maybe if the modern built guitars were available back then the top players might have had a different tone. Random thoughts here. I know there are a bunch of Os and Josh players here...what do you all think?

Webb - Posted - 09/09/2012:  17:56:06

Greg, I can see what you're saying. My 1931 OMI Dobro sounds more like Os or Josh's guitars. But it also sounds a lot different than my Gold Tone Beard or Auldridge signature. Both of them, while quite different than each other don't sound old timely like my Dobro. Of course, when a guitar is 81 years old, I guess than would make it "old timey." :)

My recent clips on this forum were all done on my Gold Tone. The songs are modern, in fact, pop. But, I'm not hearing where it sounds traditional by any means.

Regarding the baffle on the JD Sig, the Auldridge has that baffle as well. It gives a significant boost in the bottom end of the guitars, much like a folded horn speaker enclosure would on a sub speaker cabinet. To my ear, this makes for a really nice separation between highs and lows on those guitars, which helps to alleviate that tight midrange honk common with a lot of guitars, which since my ears hear too much midrange to begin with, just doesn't do much for me.. That being said, the Auldridge signature didn't sound anything like the JD sig when I played them back to back. The JD needed to be played hard to sound right to me, while the MA just sounded spectacular at any level--not only to me, but to my recording engineer and my wife who were both with me, as well. Not as pretty of a guitar, but it sounded great no matter what style I played on it. I started out as a traditional player for about the first 12 years, then I quit playing Reso altogether for about 18 years before getting bitten by the bug again, when I started listening to the modern players. My focus is primarily on modern or nontraditional styles, although I do still go bluegrassin with my old traditional buddies on Wednesdays to keep my roots polished.  

I do think you answered my question. I just don't see the Gold Tone as sounding traditional to my notions of what sounds traditional. I'm all about American made stuff, but I have to say that the Gold Tone kept me satisfied for quite a while and it seems to work pretty nicely in about any situation.

RobA - Posted - 09/10/2012:  06:18:54

I've played models by both builders on many occasions. Both a fine choices in the $1000 and under category. I don't think one sounds more traditional than the other. To me the solid mahogany Gold Tone and the Rob Ickes W/S are worth the extra $$$. The main differences between the two (as I recall) - the Gold Tone has slightly better low end response, whereas the W/S is slightly more responsive. Just my opinion....

Greg/Webb - your descriptions are helpful! Appreciate that. I'm not sure what guitar Curtis Burch plays in his song Suitcase (on Great Dobro Sessions CD) but the contrast between the sound of his guitar and Jerry Douglas Scheerhorn is a great example of traditional vs modern sounding guitars. 

RobA - Posted - 09/10/2012:  18:19:03

quote:

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Originally posted by RobA

I've played models by both builders on many occasions. Both are fine choices in the $1000 and under category. I don't think one sounds more traditional or modern than the other. To me the solid mahogany Gold Tone and the Rob Ickes W/S are worth the extra $$$. The main differences between the two are that the Gold Tone has slightly better low end whereas the W/S is slightly more responsive overall due to the open design/no soundwell

Greg/Webb - your descriptions are helpful! Appreciate that. I'm not sure what guitar Curtis Burch plays in his song Suitcase (on Great Dobro Sessions CD) but the contrast between the sound of his guitar and Jerry Douglas Scheerhorn is a great example of traditional vs modern sounding guitars. 

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