Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/09/2013:  11:07:04

does anybody have any experience about the behringer V-tone ADI21 with resos passive pickups? if so do you think it's good enough to bring up the signal of the old donut fishman pickup and tame its harshness or would I better look into the fishman G-II for this purpose?

PS: I know I might be pedant with my search of the preamp/mic, but neither the behringer nor the fishman are available down here in shops, I'll have to order them from the internet so I wont be able to test either one, your opinion and experience will be precious to me...

Edited by - Kevin Mask on 07/09/2013 11:12:24

deuce - Posted - 07/09/2013:  13:18:38

Hi Kevin. I'm with you on this. There has to be a decent and affordable alternative to fishman / aura. My experiment with the boss ac2 has been OK, but if this behringer turns out good, whoopy doo. But I think you should just get one on ebay 'cos they are inexpensive.
TT

AMCCJ7 - Posted - 07/09/2013:  15:23:40

I have this unit and have used it extensively with the Fishman Nashville pickup in a Gretsch.And the Infamous Donut pickup in an old Dobro.
I used this pedal with great results as a DI straight into a PA. It worked very well,In a full Country Band..LOUD
Lots of features for the price.The modeling feature or Blend ,on this pedal takes the Quack out of a piezeo pickup such as the Fishman Nashville.And Donut Passive
It has all the Eq,ing features, Most importantly the Sweepable Mid.!
I highly recommend it for this purpose.I still have it in my Kit as "Just in Case"
I have since purchased a Crate "Gunnision" acoustic amp and this pedal is obsolete as the Crate can EQ better with its features,such as Tweeter cut control ,Sweeping mids and so on.

amazon.com/Behringer-ADI21-V-T...one+ADI21

amazon.com/Crate-CA6110DG-Ampl...ustic+amp

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/09/2013:  15:25:24

quote:

---

Originally posted by deuce



Hi Kevin. I'm with you on this. There has to be a decent and affordable alternative to fishman / aura. My experiment with the boss ac2 has been OK, but if this behringer turns out good, whoopy doo. But I think you should just get one on ebay 'cos they are inexpensive. TT

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yeah seems like there's no choice but to buy one first, I might be able to try the G-II but the behringer seems to be more functional since it works as a DI also and has the XLR out (hence more volume).

It's pretty clear that the nashville pickup and the aura pedal give you the toppest quality, but who needs toppest quality here? I'm no jerry douglas, I just need enough volume in a band situation for those 4 songs I play with the dobro once in a blue moon in noisy honky tonks, there has to be a satisfactory solution which lies between the aura system and the crappy donut pickup alone.......

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/09/2013:  15:40:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMCCJ7

 

I have this unit and have used it extensively with the Fishman Nashville pickup in a Gretsch.And the Infamous Donut pickup in an old Dobro.

I used this pedal with great results as a DI straight into a PA. It worked very well,In a full Country Band..LOUD

Lots of features for the price.The modeling feature or Blend ,on this pedal takes the Quack out of a piezeo pickup such as the Fishman Nashville.And Donut Passive

It has all the Eq,ing features, Most importantly the Sweepable Mid.!

I highly recommend it for this purpose.I still have it in my Kit as "Just in Case"

I have since purchased a Crate "Gunnision" acoustic amp and this pedal is obsolete as the Crate can EQ better with its features,such as Tweeter cut control ,Sweeping mids and so on.



amazon.com/Behringer-ADI21-V-T...one+ADI21



amazon.com/Crate-CA6110DG-Ampl...ustic+amp

---

Thank you for sharing your experience, glad to hear it works well at raising the wimpy donut's signal and get rid of the nasty tinny tone it delivers, that's all what I need, I'm pretty sold on the behringer now, the DI function +XLR out in one box will come handy unlike the G-II which would require a separate DI. 

Slidennis - Posted - 07/10/2013:  08:16:49

I don't have a donut pickup.  I have used the Fishman preamp and I also own the ADI-21.  The Fishman is a better preamp. IMO.   But the Behringer is a good budget minded solution as has already been said.  It does do the proper ultra high impedance matching well.  it offers pretty good EQ control.  It works well as an active DI box as it was intended. .The modeling feature is a bit of a misnomer if you are thinking modeling in the sense that the Aura pedal provides modeling.  The Behringer ADI-21 only models a generic tube preamp's warmth and even that is a somewhat spurious claim.  The Aura models the microphones, the resonator body  - everything in the signal chain of classic JD dobro/recording  techniques.   And it does it very well which is why it dominates the resonator niche.   But you cannot beat the ADI-21 for price performance.  I bought mine for under $20 in evilBay.

It's a shame that no one else offers a decent saddle piezo for spider style resonator players.  I would guess that the Nashville price remains high since they are the only ones serving this niche market.  Duece has it right I think.  Does anyone here know if it is possible to cobble a split saddle piezo out of a couple regular old acoustic guitar under saddle piezo pickups.  Anyone try that yet?

Dennis

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/10/2013:  08:29:28

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slidennis

 

I don't have a donut pickup.  I have used the Fishman preamp and I also own the ADI-21.  The Fishman is a better preamp. I

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you're referring to the G-II preamp here or still the aura?

I don't really know so much about this JD thing which is all the rage nowdays, I know that my teacher had a a great sound and volume in 1995 with his Dobro (The Rose model), he could stick out of the mix very well with a blues band + drums with a very warm tone just with a passive piezo and no pedals added, just straight into the PA mixer, I'm pretty sure he had a fishman piezo installed, but surely not the JD one, I lost contact of him so I can't be bothered to search for his contact infos. I have a feeling that the aura pedal does more than I need, a lot of people in the 90s including my teacher had great sounds out of their national or dobros with regular piezos, so I really don't believe the aura system is the only way to get a decent tone/volume in a band..

Edited by - Kevin Mask on 07/10/2013 08:31:23

Slidennis - Posted - 07/10/2013:  08:57:18

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kevin Mask

you're referring to the G-II preamp here or still the aura?

I don't really know so much about this JD thing which is all the rage nowdays, I know that my teacher had a a great sound and volume in 1995 with his Dobro (The Rose model), he could stick out of the mix very well with a blues band + drums with a very warm tone just with a passive piezo and no pedals added, just straight into the PA mixer, I'm pretty sure he had a fishman piezo installed, but surely not the JD one, I lost contact of him so I can't be bothered to search for his contact infos. I have a feeling that the aura pedal does more than I need, a lot of people in the 90s including my teacher had great sounds out of their national or dobros with regular piezos, so I really don't believe the aura system is the only way to get a decent tone/volume in a band..

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I was referring to the G-II as you were inquiring about that in comparison to the ADI-21   I use Fishman piezos in my acoustic guitars and the G-II sounds very good with those (the Baggs preamps work very well too).  The ADI-21 works; it's just not as natural sounding as the Fishman.  And it is a bargain compared to boxes like the Radial Tonebone PZ.

Your teacher's setup has to have a preamp somewhere in the signal chain to at least match the impedance unless the PA mixer has ultra high impedance support  as some of Yamaha's EMX boxes have in the past.

I think we all agree that a good piezo through a good preamp and into a good PA/Acoustic amp will do the job.  And we can't compare all resos to the dobro.  The biscuit bridges are different from the spider bridges and are all different from the tricone setup.  The biscuit bridge is the easiest of the three to equip with a piezo pickup.  There are several design options available for both the tricone and biscuit bridge models.  And while the dobro style bridge still has some options, only the Nashville style pickup works very well.  So using that pickup and a decent preamp works nicely.  

The JD pedal is probably overkill for most of us.  It is a true modeling pedal though based on tedious analysis of JD's sounds in the recording studio.  Kind of like the Line 6 POD for dobro players.  It will always sound good.  

Dennis

AMCCJ7 - Posted - 07/10/2013:  09:50:02

My first Asian Reso I think it was an Alsivar?,,Anyway I did put a Martin undersaddle Piezo in it and it worked.
Is this what your asking?

pshambroom - Posted - 07/10/2013:  09:54:48

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Slidennis

: K&K makes a donut piezo for spider bridge, I have one and like it (see my other post about adjusting it.)

kksound.com/products/pureresonator.php

quote:

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Originally posted by Slidennis

It's a shame that no one else offers a decent saddle piezo for spider style resonator players.  

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Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/10/2013:  10:10:44

quote:

---

Originally posted by pshambroom

 

resohangout.com/global/ckedito.../icon.png) center no-repeat #ff0000;cursor:pointer;top:-8px;-moz-border-radius:2px;border-radius:2px" title="Insert paragraph here">↵

Slidennis

: K&K makes a donut piezo for spider bridge, I have one and like it (see my other post about adjusting it.)

kksound.com/products/pureresonator.php

 

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and works better than the fishman donut?

Slidennis - Posted - 07/10/2013:  10:25:50

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMCCJ7

 

My first Asian Reso I think it was an Alsivar?,,Anyway I did put a Martin undersaddle Piezo in it and it worked.

Is this what your asking?

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Perhaps.  Was your Asian reso a spider bridge type with a split saddle?

Dennis

Slidennis - Posted - 07/10/2013:  10:29:47

quote:

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Originally posted by pshambroom

 

resohangout.com/global/ckedito.../icon.png) center no-repeat #ff0000;cursor:pointer;top:-8px;-moz-border-radius:2px;border-radius:2px" title="Insert paragraph here">↵

Slidennis

: K&K makes a donut piezo for spider bridge, I have one and like it (see my other post about adjusting it.)

kksound.com/products/pureresonator.php

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by Slidennis

It's a shame that no one else offers a decent saddle piezo for spider style resonator players.  

---

 

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Yes, I am aware of those.  It's not a saddle pickup though.  It is still mounted under the tension screw. 

Dennis

deuce - Posted - 07/10/2013:  12:17:06

I just bought a behringer am400 acoustic modeler for £10 on ibuy. I'll let you know if that has any beneficial effect.
TT

Slidennis - Posted - 07/10/2013:  12:26:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by deuce



I just bought a behringer am400 acoustic modeler for £10 on ibuy. I'll let you know if that has any beneficial effect. TT

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Yeah, let's see what you think.  The AM400 is a different beast than the ADI-21.  It is meant for electric guitarists that want to emulate an acoustic sound.  I am not sure if it will match the output of a passive piezo.  

Dennis 

deuce - Posted - 07/10/2013:  13:04:31

There's an ADI-21 on ibuy for £20, but I have to wait six more days for that one....
TT

AMCCJ7 - Posted - 07/10/2013:  14:35:36

Yes it was a Spider

---

Originally posted by Slidennis

 

quote:

---

Originally posted by AMCCJ7

 

My first Asian Reso I think it was an Alsivar?,,Anyway I did put a Martin undersaddle Piezo in it and it worked.

Is this what your asking?

---

Perhaps.  Was your Asian reso a spider bridge type with a split saddle?

Dennis

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Edited by - AMCCJ7 on 07/10/2013 14:36:44

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/10/2013:  14:51:36

quote:

---

Originally posted by deuce



There's an ADI-21 on ibuy for £20, but I have to wait six more days for that one.... TT

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the ADI-21 for 20 bucks is a no brainer, I'm gonna get mine brand new for 30$, hopefully it'll work good with the infamous donut, I saw a comparison on youtube between the adi21 and the baggs para DI with an ukulele, my cloth ears didn't hear any difference, unfortunately there's no sample with a reso..

pshambroom - Posted - 07/13/2013:  14:00:59

I can't say, never having tried the Fishman.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kevin Mask

 

quote:

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Originally posted by pshambroom

 

resohangout.com/global/ckedito.../icon.png) center no-repeat #ff0000;cursor:pointer;top:-8px;-moz-border-radius:2px;border-radius:2px" title="Insert paragraph here">↵

Slidennis

: K&K makes a donut piezo for spider bridge, I have one and like it (see my other post about adjusting it.)

kksound.com/products/pureresonator.php

 

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and works better than the fishman donut?

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Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/17/2013:  07:48:23

I got the ADI21 yesterday and I just recorded a random impro with the pedal off and then on, thought you might be interested in the result, here's a sample soundcloud.com/kevin-mask/piezo-vs-adi21

you hear the nasty donut pickup alone at the beginning, than you'll notice when the ADI21 gets engaged, what do you think?

Brad Bechtel - Posted - 07/17/2013:  08:32:50

To me it sounds like a louder version of the original pickup - not much of a tonal change.  If that's what you're looking for, then you've certainly found it.

deuce - Posted - 07/17/2013:  12:07:44

I just won the ADI21 for £23 (that £3 extra killed me). If its better than the AM400, I'll be happy as a dog with two ****s. The AM400 sounds just like the Boss AC-2 (which is good), but you can't stick a battery in it, and its plastic (which is bad). I'll have a listen to your sample now Kevin.
TT

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/17/2013:  16:36:08

quote:

---

Originally posted by Brad Bechtel

 

To me it sounds like a louder version of the original pickup - not much of a tonal change.  If that's what you're looking for, then you've certainly found it.

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I was also looking for a way to kill the tin effect, and for what I could hear here through my M-audio fast track it did a great job,  personally I don't hear the tinny can earpiercing sound anymore, but I hear a much fatter warm acoustic sound now, and I hope I'm gonna have the same result with a real PA, as for the volume I still had to max both the pedal level knob and the one from my audio card, if it doesn't give me pesky feedbacks when I'm with the others, I can say that I'm fine with this, hopefully...

@Deuce, ok let me know what you think, I really like the tone now, if it gives me enough volume with the band without engaging larsens or feedbacks I can say that the mission is accomplished :)

Edited by - Kevin Mask on 07/17/2013 16:37:26

deuce - Posted - 07/26/2013:  13:52:03

Results in: The AC2 really gives back a lot of what the pick-up takes away, and the AM400 can be cranked up to give a big sound (including having echo). The ADI21 doesn't seem to do much at all, so its going back on ebay. I'll keep the other two...
TT

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/26/2013:  14:36:50

The AC2 is supposed to make an electric guitar or whatever doesn't sound acoustic sound acoustic, so I wonder what's the point using it with an already acoustic guitar? for how much you may like it and dislike your pickup, it may also sound exactly the same whether you use a great guitar or a cheap guitar, I'm wondering the same thing about the JD pedal since you all pretty much describe it as a modeler which contains prestored sounds made by JD in a box, so what's the point using either a top notch reso or a cheap regular acoustic if all the sound will eventually come from a precalculated image modeler?

@Deuce, have you listened to my sample? you think it sounds ****ty? cause I hear a massive difference between the beginning and after with the AD21.

deuce - Posted - 07/27/2013:  02:36:09

HI Kevin. I listened to it - great playing by the way, but the difference wasn't as noticeable to me as I would have expected. With the AC2, my thoughts were that an acoustic / reso with pickup sounds more 'electric' than desirable to me, and that the ac2 might make it sound more acoustic again - which I think it does. (BTW, it doesnt really make an electric sound anything like an acoustic). The am400 gives quite a different 'processed' sound, which I actually like. I also like your JD aura theory - maybe someone can tell us whether an apallachian with a fishman aura SOUNDS much different from a gibson with a fishman aura.... TT.

Kevin Mask - Posted - 07/27/2013:  07:27:06

quote:

---

Originally posted by deuce



HI Kevin. I listened to it - great playing by the way, but the difference wasn't as noticeable to me as I would have expected. With the AC2, my thoughts were that an acoustic / reso with pickup sounds more 'electric' than desirable to me, and that the ac2 might make it sound more acoustic again - which I think it does. (BTW, it doesnt really make an electric sound anything like an acoustic). The am400 gives quite a different 'processed' sound, which I actually like. I also like your JD aura theory - maybe someone can tell us whether an apallachian with a fishman aura SOUNDS much different from a gibson with a fishman aura.... TT.

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might be the recording cause the difference I heard while playing and the feeling was night to day, I still haven't tried it with a PA but through the sound card it gave me a satisfactory tone, much fatter and warmer, there's no tinny pinching anymore, 

n2fz - Posted - 01/22/2014:  13:14:12

Slidennis

I put an under saddle pickup on a reso  by cutting a slot in a piece of wood and using that to clamp the pickup to the spider hub using tie wraps.    The pickup cost 10$ on ebay.  The output was not as loud as a fishman split bridge p/u but you could just run it thru a preamp.  I  used two different resos for the comparison.   Maybe a better under saddle pickup would give more output.  Sound wise I dont remember anymore.  The string spacing and the 6 spots on the  pickup worked out perfectly