billmccloskey - Posted - 11/15/2013:  10:34:08

Lately I've been listening to a lot of weissenborn players and have been underwhelmed with most of the playing I hear. It seems to me that the problem is that many weissenborn players seem to fall in love with the sound of the instrument. The weisses open chord and rich resonance can be like be like a drug and as a result we hear too many slow, repetitive vamps and the same slides over top. Everything is SO MELLOW! So repetitive, and eventually so boring.

Weiss players need to funk it up a bit.

Agree or disagree?  

Liz Williams - Posted - 11/15/2013:  11:08:41

Who have you been listening too, Bill?

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/15/2013:  11:15:53

Liz, I've listened to most of the recent posts. Nobody specific.

Hunter - Posted - 11/15/2013:  11:26:58

Haha...I wonder what Mr. Dave's take on this would be:

youtu.be/28YrwLp1iLA

youtube.com/watch?v=NQxrHqKFFqc

Edited by - Hunter on 11/15/2013 11:30:30

Liz Williams - Posted - 11/15/2013:  11:29:35

I think it's true of some Weissenborn playing, but not all.  And the instrument definitely has an entrancing quality.  I know I am still exploring what kinds of music fits best on the Weissenborn.   If I post a link to this thread on the Weissenborn group, I think it would elicit lively discussion and examples of some funky, bluesy Weissenborn playing.  That could be informative and fun.  Waddya say?

RobA - Posted - 11/15/2013:  12:33:03

Bill, I agree with some of your observations. 

I think there is a tendency for Weissenborn players to default to slower tunes with pretty melodies. It's perfectly natural to do this given the softer voice of the instrument and all that entails. I can also empathize with you that as a listener I would probably get bored listening a long set of a Weissenborn music which stays too long on the same musical wavelength, using the same techniques, expressing the same sentiments over and over again. 

But, none of those things are the fault of the instrument. Rather they are a matter of taste and/or expanded technical capabilities on the part of the player. There's nothing inherently wrong with building a repertoire of slow, beautiful songs on the Weissenborn guitar. However, if your goal is to hold the attention of an audience I think it's your job as a musician to build some variety into your set list or repertoire. 

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/15/2013:  13:41:37

Of course, David Lindley is exactly who I have in mind when thinking about the possibilities of what the instrument can do. And Ben Harper. It often seems they are lone wolfs. I agree Rob, exactly, that it is not the fault of the instrument. Which is my point. there is a tendency as a musician to have a kind of, for lack of a better term, narcissistic relationship with the weissenborn where you get lost in the pretty tones and forget about making a connection with an audience.

Oh, and Liz, feel free to cross post.

Slidennis - Posted - 11/15/2013:  14:01:51

quote:

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Originally posted by billmccloskey

 

Of course, David Lindley is exactly who I have in mind when thinking about the possibilities of what the instrument can do. And Ben Harper. It often seems they are lone wolfs.

---

I think you may just need to get out and about more.   I'm crazy bout a Weissenborn.  Gonna cruise it up and down the strings.   Mr. Dave (and others) got many of us into this Weissenborn thing and we rock.  We play the blues.  Heck, we play music, no matter what it is, as long we like it, on the acoustic lap steel.  The Weissenborn can do it all.  And yes it excels on the slow sweet stuff.  You can feel it in your gut (and surrounding areas) when you are playing one - like no other guitar.  That's why folks have that intimate relationship with them - like fallin in love..  You have to play one to know what it is like.  No need to stick to the fast stuff when you've got a guitar that just sounds and feels that good.

LessonsWithTroy - Posted - 11/15/2013:  22:18:50

Here's one I did that was more upbeat, but I know what you're sayin'.

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/16/2013:  08:09:51

Love that piece Troy and I'm really enjoying your lessons. I'm working on your power drill video now. I just traded my weissenborn to a forum member for a really beautiful Wolfe which I have tuned to D, so I'm planing on getting your Angeline tutorial soon. I really love the weissenborn. I have a baritone here which I never play. I love the sound. And I have an Asher early Ben Harper model which I love. But I guess ultimately I found weissenborn's limiting. I keep buying them, and then selling them. Never found one I could stay with.

Edited by - billmccloskey on 11/16/2013 08:10:53

Liz Williams - Posted - 11/16/2013:  11:47:22

Cross-posted in the Weissenborn players group.  Thanks, Bill.  And because no one else has posted this, here's a young Jerry Douglas on Weissenborn.  He starts out fast and complicated, goes to slow and simpler in the middle, then tears it up at the end.   I like listening to the middle section best.  I think it allows the instrument to breathe and show its true colors.

Another genre I like on the Weissenborn is blues.

I'm also a big fan of using a Weissenborn to accompany singing, as in the Mr. Dave clips above.  I'm hoping some of the members of the Weissenborn Players group will post some of their own Weissenborn music, which is all over the map.  And, Bill, I hope you find the connection to the instrument you're looking for.  For me, it was in non-traditional Weiss with a deeper body.

TW - Posted - 11/16/2013:  12:19:16

Howdy Bill.....

The little thing does lend itself to the softer side of things I guess...... it was a draw for me I know and like all "mood music" I too can get kind of bored with it at times.

Been having fun with this one lately to wake things up a bit, check out "Harry's Last Burger" by Martin Gross at the following link:

youtube.com/watch?v=y1A7tGnxvZs

*************************************************************************************************************

Hey..... as an aside rather than a hijack, is that a 7 string Weiss Lindley is wangin' away on in that first video posted above by chunter4 ?  "Sport Utilities Suck"  http://youtu.be/28YrwLp1iLA

TW

Edited by - TW on 11/16/2013 12:20:01

Slidennis - Posted - 11/16/2013:  19:29:30

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quote

:

---

Hey..... as an aside rather than a hijack, is that a 7 string Weiss Lindley is wangin' away on in that first video posted above by chunter4 ?  "Sport Utilities Suck"  http://youtu.be/28YrwLp1iLA

TW

---

Yes, it is a 7 String Canopus Weissenborn made in Tokyo by Yasu Kamiya who, if I have it right, once worked for Sho-Bud.  Ben Harper has also played a Canopus Weissenborn on occasion.

Edited by - Slidennis on 11/16/2013 19:31:47

Niels Andrews - Posted - 11/17/2013:  07:49:07

Like I was once told: "the magic is not in the wand, but the person waving it."

Lounge Primate - Posted - 11/17/2013:  10:08:14

As a new Weissie owner, yes...I guess I am in love with the sound. I own a nice collection of dobros, love 'em, but i was looking for a mellower bluesy sound to accompany my blues jamming (electric) buddies, so I bought a Iseman with Seymour Duncan pickup. What i love about it in blues jams is that is more subtle, more of a haunting " blues out on the prairie sound". 

It will absolutely not work acoustically in bluegrass jams: way too quiet.  I guess another advantage of the weissie for me is all the road time i do for my job. The weissie is more compact, and much quieter for motel room practicing.  Nothing crushes your traveling practice routine like some guy angrily pounding on the motel wall next to you, or the front desk calling saying "the guy in room 203 is complaining about the banjo like noise coming from your room."

Another advantage with my new weissie fascination is that now i jam at bluegrass jams with a d-tuned dobro, and a g-tuned dobro, which makes my contribution a little bit more interesting withmore "color".

TW - Posted - 11/17/2013:  10:11:22

Hey....  thanks for that Dennis. Good research project for me on this dreary day while I suffer through a cold.

Your info was spot on, here is a link to what I've found so far:  din.or.jp/~canopus/joeindex.htm

---

Yes, it is a 7 String Canopus Weissenborn made in Tokyo by Yasu Kamiya who, if I have it right, once worked for Sho-Bud.  Ben Harper has also played a Canopus Weissenborn on occasion.

---

Hunter - Posted - 11/17/2013:  10:59:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by TW

 

Hey....  thanks for that Dennis. Good research project for me on this dreary day while I suffer through a cold.

Your info was spot on, here is a link to what I've found so far:  din.or.jp/~canopus/joeindex.htm

 

---

Yes, it is a 7 String Canopus Weissenborn made in Tokyo by Yasu Kamiya who, if I have it right, once worked for Sho-Bud.  Ben Harper has also played a Canopus Weissenborn on occasion.

---

 

---

They are an interesting guitar, visually not so much, but the sound is incredible.  I remember reading that Mr. Dave's was a baritone 7 string.  I may be wrong, but based upon the bass from this video it sure sound like it may be a baritone.    I am also very intrigued with the tuning, I read he uses (Bass to High tuning of GDGDGBD).  I think that tuning would provide quite a few possibilities. 

The first time I saw the video I was taken back at how high his bridge pins are sticking out.  Makes me wonder the gauge of his strings. 

woofie - Posted - 11/17/2013:  12:19:09

Hello,
Aren't we lucky to have such a great forum?
I like Bill cranking it off and Liz responding. My friend who is over 80 plays a Weissborn and it is wonderful. Makes my old Regal sound as bad as a banjo on baling wire.

The fellow who posted about Bluegrass drownding him out is on target also. Big time.

A while back I told my partner Sharon that I was going to buy a Weissborn and go see if I could entrance some fair maidens with it . ( Over at Sun City, AZ).
She thought two things. 1. When did I last know a fair maiden? and 2. Where could I sign up for lessons from Troy? (Lots of lessons)
Cajun friend of mine once asked Hank Williams " What is really good music?" He replied, "Son If it is your music, it is good music".
i always liked that. Major

Eric Abernathy - Posted - 11/17/2013:  15:25:44

my 2 cents youtube.com/watch?v=zqp2ty9v5-w

TW - Posted - 11/17/2013:  16:11:09

quote:

---

Originally posted by billmccloskey

 

Lately I've been listening to a lot of weissenborn players and have been underwhelmed with most of the playing I hear. It seems to me that the problem is that many weissenborn players seem to fall in love with the sound of the instrument. The weisses open chord and rich resonance can be like be like a drug and as a result we hear too many slow, repetitive vamps and the same slides over top. Everything is SO MELLOW! So repetitive, and eventually so boring.

Weiss players need to funk it up a bit.

 

Agree or disagree?  

---

Someone, anyone, please tell me that falling in love with the sound of this instrument really isn't a "problem"...... 

I got enough problems as it is ! 

Edited by - TW on 11/17/2013 16:17:33

chuck hall - Posted - 11/17/2013:  17:03:12

quote:

---

Originally posted by Eric Abernathy

 

my 2 cents youtube.com/watch?v=zqp2ty9v5-w

---

Enjoyed that Eric.

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/17/2013:  17:04:10

Eric,

That is a unique way you have of holding the bar. Is there a reason you hold it that way?

Eric Abernathy - Posted - 11/17/2013:  18:01:31

Bill, my left hand fingers are paralyzed and do not function.The bar is fixed to my hand without using fingers,

BrianMac - Posted - 11/17/2013:  18:14:10

Hey Bill,

I see you've recently bought and then sold a weissenborn on the Steel Guitar Forum. Perhaps you're suffering some frustration?

FWIW, I can't seem to connect to an open D tuning myself (on dobro). I guess I'm leaving it to some else to do the cool stuff in D.

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/17/2013:  18:43:54

Hey Brian,

No, that had more to do with the instrument itself. It sounded great plugged in, but didn't have the sound I was looking for acoustically. I wanted to pick up a second dobro anyway to leave in D tuning and I had an opportunity to trade it for a wonderful walnut Wolfe ported. i think the guy who got my weiss is happy. I've had a lot of weisses, Lazy River's, Celtic Crosses, GeorgeBoards, this last one. Never found one I was in love with, so I think I'm just going to have to wait until I play one that speaks to me. And I love the Wolfe to death.

My frustration came from checking out the current youtube examples when I recently purchased that Weiss. I play the weiss a little more funky and bluesy and was surprised to see so many people basically doing the same riff, the same endless roll, the same dreary vamp. Like in a trance. That is what prompted the post.

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/17/2013:  18:45:04

Wow, that is an amazing story Eric. You have my admiration.

tigchrome - Posted - 11/18/2013:  07:57:33

I kind of get were you are coming from Bill. It wasn't until I heard our very own " Lomesomedobro" (member on this forum) post a video of him playing "Near The Cross" on his weissenborn that I became intrigued. Then I heard Ed Gerhard's version of "Killing The Blues" that just floored me. Grizz had been after me to look into this instrument for a while, but after hearing Gerhard I really started looking around. I have since found a lot of tunes I like better on the wessie than resonator, an example is Troy's version of Angiline The Baker. Just did not like this tune on reso, but when Troy posted recently I decided to give a listen only because it was on a weissenborn guitar. I have a great Meredith resonator that I will never part with, but that weissenborn sound just speaks to me. I do understand your frustration with none of your prior ones  doing it for you. Keep up the search tho.

Guitarelic - Posted - 11/18/2013:  11:21:17

Mr.Mccloskey: plz take the time to chek-out John Fahey & Jack Rose on Weisse'. they're both outa here and gone but they left alot behind that'll never die!

Lounge Primate - Posted - 11/18/2013:  11:28:31

Tigchrome, as i posted earlier, I'm a recent convert to Weissie's, but I do have to say, if you haven't tried tuning your Meredith to 'D' and playing Angeline The Baker, you might give it a try.  I've a Phil Leadbetter dobro tuned to D, and Angeline is a song that really sounds great in that tuning on a conventional dobro.

ronmack - Posted - 11/18/2013:  11:52:45

I was fortunate to be able to trade a reso fort the weissenborn of my dreams.  It's absolutely everything I wanted in a weissie.  However as Bill mentioned, tuning a reso to D tuning is also an option.  D tuning is really a great.

billmccloskey - Posted - 11/18/2013:  11:59:18

Really happy you like the weiss Ron. I'm thrilled with your Wolfe ported.

tigchrome - Posted - 11/18/2013:  14:48:18

Hey Lounge, Yep, I've got a W/S tuned to D and sometimes to C. I really like that C tuning on some songs.

captbanjo - Posted - 11/18/2013:  17:10:39

My take is, sometimes I like Tequila and other times I prefer red wine.

I play some Irish music on tenor banjo. Sometimes it's too much and I switch to octave mandolin for smooth and mellow O'Carolan tunes or such.

Hey Eric, your last name caught my attention. Playing bluegrass five string, I've long been aware of Barry Abernathy with Mountain Heart:

youtube.com/watch?v=XSHALha5IlI

Wayne

RobA - Posted - 11/19/2013:  07:33:30

Just repeating my post from the Weissenborn groups forum here...

There's nothing inherently wrong with playing slow songs on the Weissenborn, per se. There's good slow and there's bad slow; good fast and bad fast... The real issue - IMO - is whether a given song - and the player's execution of the song - are compelling to listen to. A well constructed, well played tune shares elements of story telling - with a beginning, middle and an end. It draws us in and makes us want to listen. More importantly, it makes us feel something.

Bill's post - Are Weissenborn player's too in love with the sound of the instrument? Is an interesting rhetorical question. Does the very thing that draws us into wanting to play the instrument become a stumbling block later on? I see two main issues here, namely creativity and technique. Of the two issues I'd say learning to play with great technique is - by far - the major stumbling block for most Weissenborn players. It takes a lot of time and effort to develop enough technique to play the Weissenborn with great tone and to be able to execute phrases and melodies with solid timing, clean transitions and - depending on the tune - a convincing vibrato. As the expression goes, if you've got great technique you can sing the phone book and people will pay good money to listen to you. I view creativity as an outgrowth of technique. As we progress in our efforts to master certain techniques it's only natural that we will stumble across new ideas and new avenues to express those ideas.

Eric Abernathy - Posted - 11/22/2013:  21:01:07

Yeah Wayne, Cousin Barry rocks the Banjo. If everybody practiced their own instruments more there wouldn't be time to complain about others playing. If you only play 2 notes and you are enjoying yourself then you have won imo. If I don't like what I am hearing I just change the station lol.