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Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.resohangout.com/archive/35898
910reso1 - Posted - 12/16/2013: 07:00:59
Inexperienced newbie here with questions. Are there substantial tonal differences between maple and mahogany resos? I know that with banjos maple tends to produce a more crisp,cutting tone, while mahogany typically is "warmer". Is this the case with resos? More volume with maple? What do most professionals play? Is there a preference for one over the other (across the board)? Thanks in advance for response.
Slidennis - Posted - 12/16/2013: 08:30:56
It's all a mater of personal preference. Play what you like - like what you play.
The prevailing mythology is that maple sounds brighter than mahogany. But there is much more to consider. The dobro is more of a mechanical beast than an acoustic guitar. The quality and the setup of the cone, bridge and saddles matter a great deal. The volume of the box has a greater effect than the wood of which the box is made. Porting, baffles, various soundwell designs etc all have a bearing on the tone. And keep in mind that some of the best resonator guitars ever made are veneered plywood.
Look for the best build quality that you can afford. Play it before you buy it. If you like the sound and the looks, great, go for it. Hope that helps.
Dennis
resotom - Posted - 12/16/2013: 13:07:17
This is very true . I have three resos all with different woods and cones and find the tone to be different in each one. Maple is my preference for its brightness, but mahagany is nicely subdued. I like to Taylor the reso to the song I am,playing to fit the mood ...
BillinDurango - Posted - 12/16/2013: 18:03:20
Brandon, Consider the main use of this reso: living room, campfire, stage or studio.
If it is campfire or stage, maple seems to cut through an acoustic ensemble mix a bit stronger.
Just my $.02...Dennis & Tom +1.
Bill
RobA - Posted - 12/17/2013: 04:49:12
Great info shared by everyone above...
I have 2 square neck resonators built to the same specs by the same builder. One is mahogany/spruce, the other is all curly maple. When I first took possession of the mahogany/spruce guitar (already had the maple guitar) I spent hours and hours going back and forth between the two guitars, familiarizing myself with the differences between the them. I even played both for some friends and asked them what differences they heard. Long story short - my maple guitar is louder, has more overtones and projects better than my mahogany/spruce guitar. In comparison, my mahogany/spruce guitar is warmer, has more fundamental tone and has way better low end response. As stated above, it's really important to take the builder and also any combination of woods into consideration as well as the differences between resonator guitars vs. acoustic guitars when discussing the influence of tonewoods for resonators. For example, all things being equal, an all mahogany guitar will be much mellower and will not project or "cut" as well as a mahogany/spruce guitar. A mahogany/cedar guitar will be noticeably warmer than an all mahogany guitar, etc. The difference in woods used for the soundboard may not be as pronounced as it is for an acoustic guitar but it does make a difference. Back to the original comparison, if you read through the blog-o-sphere you'll find a lot of folks that swear by maple and highlight it's ability to "cut" in an all acoustic jam session, etc. Fair enough, but I've used my mahogany/spruce as my main guitar for the past few years and I don't have any issues with cutting through the mix. It's plenty loud!
Here's a link to an article by Dana Bourgeois which provides an overview of tonewoods. The info is presented through the lens of an acoustic guitar builder, but it's a great overview nonetheless. His concept of velocity of sound is a helpful in discussing differences between tonewoods.
Hope this helps!
pantheonguitars.com/tonewoods.htm
otbreso - Posted - 12/17/2013: 07:54:10
Rob, great article and thanks for posting. There are people that say the tone has more to do with the builder than the woods, something Bourgeois touched on in the article, but the woods definitely play a major part in tone. A lot of people think that the woods contribute even less with a resonator guitar but I disagree. The top of a dobro may contribute less than a regular guitar but for the reasons Bourgeois stated the back and sides still shape tone too. Here is another interesting article on tonewoods but kind of the other side..
guitarnation.com/articles/calkin.htm
There is a guy on a ukulele builders site that I frequent that has made a couple of ukes from pallet wood and they came out great sounding, nail holes and all !! ! He did this just as an experiment. On the instruments that I have built, the ones from like wood have similar characteristics vs others from different woods. You can still hear my "style" in them but they all have different qualities based on the tone woods.
This is a debate that has raged in the instrument building community since forever.
resotom - Posted - 12/17/2013: 09:51:35
I thank everyone who contributed to this discussion. That's what this website is for...to educate and get members input on anything that has to do with our amazing instrument . Let's hear from some other members on their experiences with their resos !
Dean Upson - Posted - 12/17/2013: 10:56:09
My Clinesmith koa and the Clinesmith myrtle sound very different. The myrtle has more of a biting, maple sound and the koa is very loud, but mellow. I have heard it mentioned that koa sounds like mahogany on steroids.
My Maple Hook and the BRW/Spruce sound very different as well. The maple is a real killer with a very loud crisp prescience (more so than the myrtle) and the BRW stands out just by itself, totally has her own voice.
All my guitars have Scheerhorn cones except the Clinesmith myrtle, she has a Quarterman.
I am fortunate to have a friend (also my teacher) that is a very good player and he has played them all and I can honestly say that I know what they should sound like. I wish I could get them to sound like that!
Lounge Primate - Posted - 12/17/2013: 11:16:19
To throw another curve in there regarding woods and resos, I've noticed that maple is generally brighter, but i believe it also matters on the thickness of the wood. I have a reso with very thin, brittle maple that is bright and cutting as a banjo when tuned to G (too bright for my ear), and I have another reso that has much thicker maple construction, that is definitely mellower, almost mahogany-like.
And to add to this, have any of you noticed how different your maple vs.mahogany vs walnut, etc. wood resos sound in different tunings? My thin/brittle maple reso, when tuned down to either F (FACFAC) or D (DADF#AD) just kicks ass over my other resos that I prefer for playing in G (the thick-walled maple, and another in Walnut). It has better bass response, and projects a killer blues tone to my ear. I really need to record the differences for a more objective ear.
I guess solid wood dobros have sweet spots that are affected by not only the wood, but by the maker, the cone, the set-up, the strings, and the tuning.
otbreso - Posted - 12/17/2013: 12:01:08
L.P., I think you are right about the thickness of the wood making the kind of difference you are hearing and the tuning for sure. There are so many variables! I heard a quote once, I think it was from Tim Scheerhorn but I really don't remember. Went like this "Making an instrument sound good is doing a lot of little things right" Something like that.
Dean, I think we never get the "real" sound when we're playing it at least is sounds better to me when somebody else is playing my instruments. I really do think we hear something different than an audience when we are blazing away with that thing right in our face and the sound people hear standing away from is different.
While I've never built any rezos, my stuff has been ukuleles, mandolins and cigar box stuff, I think the principals are pretty much the same.
On plywood boxes; I'm thinking that the medium is a lot more consistent than solid woods so maybe a builder can consistently build like sounding instruments. The only ones I've ever played have been the MA6 and a couple of Wechters. That MA6 was a wonderful soundin instrument.
I'm no expert for sure and most of what I think about this is from personal observation and experience. Nothin scientific.
th
Lounge Primate - Posted - 12/17/2013: 12:18:52
to add an analogy : I'm in the flyfishing business. It's amazing how many flyrods that I've cast, whether they are bamboo, carbon fiber, glass, or boron: rods that I thought were dogs, just needed a different flyline to make them cast sweetly. Sometimes it's the line weight, the line taper, the line texture, sometimes it's a combination of all, or just uplining or downlining, but eventually I have been able to line a rod that I thought was a dog, and it would turn out pretty sweet--I'm thinking dobros are similarly in need of 'tweeking': set-ups, cones, strings and tunings.
Preston Thompson - Posted - 12/18/2013: 05:04:42
Watch out on this subject. Last time we discussed wood it ended up in a fight.
But Dennis, I think it's past the point of mythology. It's pretty much fact.
910reso1 - Posted - 12/18/2013: 07:06:18
Great info guys - thanks. I will say that my maple W/S seems to be plenty loud, and the tone is pleasing. If /when I upgrade I'm thinking of going with a solid mahogany reso.
Alan Rausch - Posted - 12/18/2013: 07:46:10
I have 2 Appalachians, birch and koa. I had Schoonover spiders with ebonex/maple inserts and Scheerhorn cones put in when made. The birch is higher and lower, the koa more mid. Most people canʻt tell the difference which supports the idea that builders build like instruments. Recently I put Beard Legend Cones in both of them. The change was more dramatic in the birch, added volume in both, but the birch added fullness up the neck. The high b and d really stand out at the 12th fret, and not in a high biting way, nice and deep with sustain. I play both at gigs, which is the reason for having 2. I did not want to change my sound dramatically, which adds to the theory that the player contributes much to the sound and tone. I do know when we get back to the studio in 2014 both will contribute.
Summary: (canʻt help it Iʻm a teacher) 2 and 3 may be interchangeable.
1. Wood makes some difference
2. Builder makes a difference
3. Cones makes more difference
4. Player makes the most difference
RobA - Posted - 12/18/2013: 09:33:31
That's a great article Terry. I'll go back and re-read that from time to time. Thanks for posting!
kitkat - Posted - 12/19/2013: 01:22:04
Each guitar paints it's own tonal picture,due to the factors that combine to make a dobro. We are so blessed to have the cones that Beard and others are spinning today. Before them dobros we're hit and miss. I we'll remember hearing that the tooling was lost at the end of WW 2 so they had to start over. People would talk about the pre war dobros that we're the holy grail. OMI tried to produce a great sounding guitar but John Dopyera was absent who had invented the guitar in the first place. If you were a player in the 60s and 70s you will understand how many of the instruments of today are such an improvement over most of the OMI dobros. The CNC machines sure help also. I hope you have a Merry Christmas.
Steevarino - Posted - 12/19/2013: 10:51:14
On the subject of wood vs. tone, be advised that some builders (myself included) offer resophonic guitars with different species of wood on the same body. Not just spruce tops, but also such options as mahogany sides matched to maple tops and backs, or the opposite: maple sides matched to mahogany tops and backs. We have experimented with mixing other woods together too.
In fact, this is how our RedLIne Resophonics "CoverGirl" Series started several years ago, with Birdseye Maple top and back, and Honduras Mahogany sides. We have has great results offering these "mixed woods" on the bodies of our guitars, so I thought I'd throw that option in the mix here too . . .
Lounge Primate - Posted - 12/19/2013: 11:39:01
So, Steevarino, you're building them--what's your theory on maple vs. mahogany? Is every guitar you build a random different tone that surprises you when you're done, or do you know what you're going to get when you build using maple vs. mahogany, or spruce. . . or. . . . ?
Steevarino - Posted - 12/19/2013: 12:00:21
My results have been pretty much in-line with the opinions stated on this thread (and its supporting links) so far. It's not really all that quantifiable, as far as I can tell, because there are so many other influencing factors that come into play. For example, and I think I mentioned this somewhere else here on RH sometime back... take mahogany, for example. Mahogany trees grow to pretty extreme heights. The main trunk of the tree can stay pretty wide, wide enough for guitars, even on the upper end of the tree. This means that the wood on the lower end of the tree has had to endure the weight of the rest of the tree during its entire life. It seems reasonable to me to believe that the wood on the lower portion of a tall mahogany tree will be much more dense (and therefore exhibit different tonal characteristics) than the wood from the upper part of the tree. Same tree, different results. If you have ever off-loaded a couple of thousand board feet of Honduras Mahogany from a truck to a storage rack, you will know exactly what I am talking about! Maybe less of a factor for maple, as they don't grow nearly as tall. But then, there are plenty of varieties of maple to choose from, extending the possibility of variations.
Not only that, but you must also factor in the design each builder chooses to go with . . . Body size, depth, bracing, cone, spider, baffles, neck size and configuration, fretboard material, finish type and thickness, the list goes on and on.
So, I'm not saying the question is unanswerable, but it does get rather complex, if you want to look at the big picture.
Steve
910reso1 - Posted - 12/21/2013: 07:15:54
Steevarino, that's interesting - I never really thought about where on the tree the wood comes from. But that makes sense - wood lower on the trunk seemingly is under a whole lot more pressure and I would assume would be more dense as well. Thanks for that input. Brandon
mthunderwolf - Posted - 01/30/2014: 18:45:14
While I have had very little experience comparing tonalities of woods used in reso guitars I can certainly understand it. I have had similar experiences with Native American Flutes made with various woods. I have played and owned close to 200 flutes over the past few years and can tell you that different cedars will be different and going from cedar to mahogany, maple Australian Blackwood and Brazilian cherry all possess different degrees of volume, crispness or hauntingly mellow. I am glad I found this thread in that I am planning on having a solid body reso made this year and have been pondering what woods to have it made with. I have several flutes also made with macacauba which is similar to mahogany but can attain crisp sounds similar to maple. I don't know if any of you have had any dealings wit this particular wood and/or Brazilian Cherry but would certainly love to hear from you or any suggestions. I know the size of the reso will effect the volume as well as the mechanical parts and how they are installed (baffle, etc).
I look forward to any replies!
Thanks in advance!
Mark
resoranger - Posted - 07/15/2014: 13:05:41
Thanks to everyone for all of the great info. Some new ideas I had never thought about.