ren - Posted - 06/23/2020:  08:42:46

Hi! I’m Japanese Dobro player. My Dobro is National Sheerhorn's L Body.
I'd like to put a Hipshot on my Sheerhorn. But I'm worried that no one has a Hipshot tailpiece or roller nut on it. Would the Hipshot fit the standard on the Sheerhorn?

hlpdobro - Posted - 06/23/2020:  09:45:13

Yes..Contact Greg Booth. His National built Scheerhorn has the Doubleshot installed by Tim Scheerhorn. There are others as well.

h

AK Slider - Posted - 06/24/2020:  19:50:42

Yes, I have the DoubleShot setup on a National Scheerhorn L Body, it works great. I know of at least one Tim built L Body with it. No issues.

lakeview - Posted - 06/25/2020:  16:15:05

I happily have one on my Tim built. Beard guitars has a case that will fit the combo.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 06/25/2020:  17:36:57

Ivan, I didn't realize that you had a DoubleShot on your Tim-built Scheerhorn. 

In some circles it might  be considered defiling the holy grail!

AK Slider - Posted - 06/25/2020:  18:43:22

Mark, even Tim said he couldn’t hear any adverse effects to the tone after installing mine, if anything more sustain. Our NorCal buddy Jon Grier has one on his Horn, no issues, loves it.

Oboe Cadobro - Posted - 06/27/2020:  22:23:42

quote:

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Originally posted by AK Slider

Mark, even Tim said he couldn’t hear any adverse effects to the tone after installing mine, if anything more sustain. Our NorCal buddy Jon Grier has one on his Horn, no issues, loves it.

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Not surprised at the "more sustain" comment. My Beard E model had so much resonance that I could not do a dry chop without installing dampeners on the strings on the headstock and also a tubular dampener on the strings between the bridge and the Hipshot tailpiece.

lakeview - Posted - 06/28/2020:  11:23:22

I had been driving (until this year??) twice a year to The Shakori Hills music festival near Chapel Hill NC and decided a few times to go through Hagerstown and get various maintenance work done. At some point the thought occurred to me to make the most of the opportunity and get the Hipshot installed. The concept definitely felt a little weird , and sort of sacrilegious and maybe a little stupid. Why would I consider messing with my superb guitar?
I'm a prudent risk taker. I had tried one on another guitar and I really liked it. The boost in functionality is significant. I too noticed some increase in sustain. I think if I had noticed more than a slight negative impact on tone I would have removed it. I still twinge a little when I take it out of its case because it is kind of like looking at your kid wearing braces but I've mostly gotten used to it. I do however, absolutely love the locking tuners.

lakeview - Posted - 06/30/2020:  07:18:10

How does one edit a post on here? I put emojis and they showed up as question marks on my post. Oh now I see. It appears that I can't edit it once it is posted

Edited by - lakeview on 06/30/2020 07:20:02

Oboe Cadobro - Posted - 06/30/2020:  09:24:28

quote:

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Originally posted by lakeview

How does one edit a post on here? I put emojis and they showed up as question marks on my post. Oh now I see. It appears that I can't edit it once it is posted

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You edited the above post. However, after a certain time period, the permission to edit is disabled.

ren - Posted - 09/10/2020:  19:50:58

Thank you all for your comments.

I'm going to buy Doble shot and roller nut.


Should I buy a Lock tuner?
Which one do I buy?

AK Slider - Posted - 09/10/2020:  20:44:52

Just get the three components from HipShot, tailpiece, roller nut, and tuners. Their tuners are great. I like them better than the Gotohs on my Tim built.

ren - Posted - 10/19/2020:  22:24:21

Yes, sir!Thank you.

Then I'm going to buy a Tailpiece, a Roller nut, and some Locking tuners.

The locking tuners are
Is it okay to buy 3 treble and 3 base sides each?
Should I choose the same pegs in the STRING POST LENGTH column as I'm using now?

mesmithut - Posted - 10/20/2020:  06:29:24

I'm going against the grain here and saying locking tuners aren't necessary. I recently moved my Doubleshot and roller nut from my Appy to my Beard and I was debating whether to move the locking tuners. I didn't really want to drill my Odyssey for the hipshot tuners (and the tuners already had minor issues where two of the plastic bushings that isolate the tuner keys from the tuner housing had failed). As I was debating what to do, I noticed my pedal steel does not have locking tuners and it deals with exactly the same mechanics as the Doubleshot where the string tension is changed thru a lever mechanism. I then looked around at pedal steels and I never found an example with locking tuners. I figured if the pedal steels don't need them, neither does the Doubleshot and I left the Beard with the original tuners. So far, I've had no issues. Not to say locking tuners aren't convenient, I just don't think they're necessary.

AK Slider - Posted - 10/20/2020:  11:37:05

I agree, no pedal steels have them and they probably aren’t necessary. The roller bridge, yes. The tuners are nice though, super silky smooth and easy to change strings with no wraps needed.

ren - Posted - 10/20/2020:  19:31:13

Thanks for the valuable input.

So a Locking tuner isn't an absolute necessity for a hip shot.

In the meantime, I'll just buy the tailpiece and roller nut and then we'll figure it out!

Thank you all!

ren - Posted - 10/20/2020:  19:43:36

Speaking of which!

If you install the hip shot, it won't fit in your current hard case.What do you guys do?
Did you buy a case that will hold a guitar with a hip shot?
What do you use and what do you recommend?

daver - Posted - 10/21/2020:  11:15:49

quote:

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Originally posted by ren

Speaking of which!



If you install the hip shot, it won't fit in your current hard case.What do you guys do?

Did you buy a case that will hold a guitar with a hip shot?

What do you use and what do you recommend?

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Resophonic Outfitters sells Calton ($$$$) and TKL ($$$) cases sized to fit the Doubleshot on an E body reso.  I have the TKL for my Doubleshot-equipped Odyssey.

When the Doubleshot was on an old Appalachian, it fit just right in a "vintage" Travelite case.  New Travelite cases may work with the foam block at the tailpiece end of the lid removed.

A roomy gig bag, perhaps? YMMV

Edited by - daver on 10/21/2020 11:18:24

mesmithut - Posted - 10/21/2020:  12:19:00

I agree with Dave. I have one of the TKL cases from Beard but it now stays in the attic. I use a heavy duty gig bag for day to day transporting. The Travelite cases look like a good option if you can get one.

daver - Posted - 10/30/2020:  08:12:25

quote:

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Originally posted by mesmithut

I'm going against the grain here and saying locking tuners aren't necessary.

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I'll go at a 45 degree angle to the grain and say "It depends".  I replaced the Grover Sta-tites on the Appalachian with Hipshot locking tuners and it helped the tuning stability.  The Odyssey has Waverly tuners, and found the tuning stability to be the same as the locking tuners on the Appy.  What you want with the Doubleshot is a tuner that doesn't move during operation.  In my case, the Waverly tuners, with strings correctly installed and seated, are stable.  Locking tuners are also stable (and as Greg said, a whole lot easier to change strings).  If one chooses to upgrade in stages, I would consider the Doubleshot and roller nut the inseperable stage 1; locking tuners can be added later as needed.  The better the original tuners and string installation, the less need.

My opinion only.  YMMV.

Edited by - daver on 10/30/2020 08:17:22

GONE - Posted - 10/30/2020:  12:08:20

I’ve used several varieties locking tuners over the decades and most recently became a big fan of HipShot locking tuners.

UMP (universal mounting plate) design is a neat system which simply works without the need to drill and/or fill headstocks. The tuners work smoothly and feel great.

Having also used HipShot string benders on Tele’s for almost 30 years. Dave’s a great guy and provides some very useful products to the guitar marketplace.

For the question “do you really need locking tuners?”

Lengthy answer is that it just depends. Even poorly installed strings will eventually snug-up. And when properly lock-tied onto tuner posts - quickly bed-in and cinch the post well enough so that there’s little to no slippage wiggling some form of string moving apparatus.

But it takes time to lock-wind strings properly then more time to play-in, stretch and snug everything into stable condition. Locking tuners simply gets you there more quickly and consistently.

Normally install locking tuners on my non-HipShot guitars just because it makes string changes so much quicker and easier. Wearing through a large number of strings this can be quite helpful.

But based on my experience dealing with a vibrato bridge or other string pulling mechanisms it’s generally best to use some form of locking string tuner.

ren - Posted - 11/14/2020:  22:06:51

Thank you all.
I decided to install the locking tuner afterwards for now.
The roller nut and tailpiece were already delivered.

The roller nut doesn't seem to fit the Sheerhorn, so I decided to ask the repairman to modify the fingerboard.

About the tailpiece.
The angle between the surface of the tuning lever and the surface of the strap button is exactly 90 degrees, and I can't install it as it is. This means I'll have to reposition the strap button.

Or is that the way it's supposed to work for Beard?

There's so much I don't know, I'm worried! Somebody help me!

Lounge Primate - Posted - 11/15/2020:  10:32:28

I've been reading this thread with interest. I've been thinking of sending my 'Frugal-Horn' to Beard for a new cone, Hipshot Doubleshot, roller bridge, Fishman Aura bridge install.

I didn't even consider that it might not fit in my case after the install (which makes the shipping across the country kind of scary).

Are there any published measurements out there on various guitars with the Doubleshot installed?

daver - Posted - 11/15/2020:  15:00:04

quote:

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Originally posted by ren

Thank you all.

...The roller nut doesn't seem to fit the Sheerhorn, so I decided to ask the repairman to modify the fingerboard....



...The angle between the surface of the tuning lever and the surface of the strap button is exactly 90 degrees, and I can't install it as it is. This means I'll have to reposition the strap button....

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If possible, before you drill or cut, please send some pictures.  The Doubleshot tailpiece was a drop-in fit on both my Appalachian and my Beard.  However, there may be enough difference in the National/Scheerhorn coverplate and tailpiece that a new hole is required.

The Doubleshot roller nut is sized to fit perfectly on a Beard guitar with a 5/32" nut slot and 1/4" fingerboard.  If yours is different, you will have to shim or rout out the wood in the nut area as needed.  Do not alter the fingerboard, as the roller nut string break is indexed at the fingerboard edge.

Edited by - daver on 11/15/2020 15:01:11

mesmithut - Posted - 11/15/2020:  18:57:49

I made some measurements and photos of the Doubleshot on my Beard Odyssey that might help. First, when installed, the Doubleshot sits above the top of the reso. There's a definite space between the Doubleshot and the top of the reso. This is normal. The distance from the top plate of the Doubleshot to the centerline of the mounting screw/strap  button is about 35 mm. The distance from the top plate of the standard reso tailpiece (the original part on the Odyssey) is about 30 mm and the distance from the top of the guitar to the mounting hole is also about 30mm (all of these measurements are approximate). The takeaway from this is that if your strap button hole cenyerline is about 30mm from the top of the reso, you should be OK and you should expect space between the Doubleshot and the top of the reso to provide clearance for the coverplate. The standard tailpiece has a slight angle (> 90 degrees) to provide clearance at the coverplate but the Double shot looks to me to be exactly 90 degrees and provides clearance using the offset shown in the picture.

Hope this helps.

Doubleshot Offset

Doubleshot distance to centerline

Standard Tailpiece distance to centerline

 

ren - Posted - 11/15/2020:  23:07:13

I bought this case because I figured it would fit in any Dobro (even with a Hipshot attached), though I haven't tried it yet.

gruvgear.com/collections/guita...psule-duo

Yes...the cover plate may make a difference. Thanks for the detailed measurements.

Maybe the cover plate bulges differently in Beard and Appalachian than in Scheerhorn.

Pictures, I know it's hard to tell, but I'll post them.

https://d.kuku.lu/df45f1547e

I think it's better not to force the Sheerhorn to install it...

daver - Posted - 11/17/2020:  09:12:40

Ren, from your picture (all I see is the picture of your roller nut and guitar nut), it appears that the installed nut has a deeper slot than needed for the roller nut. The nut slot would need to be filled with wood strips so the depth of the nut slot from the fingerboard is 1/4".  I can't tell from your picture, but you may need to address the width of the nut slot as well.  If the existing nut slot is too narrow, you would need to remove material from the peghead side of the slot and not the fingerboard side.



Though I don't see pictures of the Doubleshot tailpiece against your guitar, it would need to be installed as Mark Smith shows in his pictures, with the tailpiece resting on the coverplate and installed at a 90 degree angle to the body. There will be a gap as shown. This is how my Doubleshot is installed as well. If the Doubleshot tailpiece mounting hole does not align with the existing tailpiece hole, then a new hole would need to be drilled.



Also, you will want to make sure to handle the guitar carefully with strings off, as nothing will be holding the cone/spider assembly in place. When I installed my Doubleshot, I removed the four center strings, leaving the outside strings at pitch. Then from the fingerboard end, I gently inserted a thin wooden wedge under the coverplate strap, just until I felt slight resistance.  Then I removed the outside strings, and the cone spring force held everything in place long enough to change the tailpiece.  I then installed the two new outside strings, tuned to pitch, and carefully removed the wedge before completely restringing.  Sorry, I had a picture of this process but can't find it now...



DISCLAIMER:  I am describing the process as I did it.  If you do not feel comfortable adding shims and drilling holes, I'd recommend finding a competent repairperson.

Edited by - daver on 11/17/2020 09:16:00

GONE - Posted - 11/23/2020:  09:55:12

'Haven’t saved enough for Doubleshot yet but did install roller nut this morning on a few year old Regal RD40. Everything fit nicely and required no cutting or added material.

MattInOz - Posted - 04/22/2021:  18:48:06

quote:

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...dampeners on the strings on the headstock and also a tubular dampener on the strings between the bridge and the Hipshot tailpiece.

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Great advice! Do you use tennis racquet dampeners by any chance? Thinking of what to put on mine (new JD RedBeard with Doubleshot). The harmonics are quite noticeable.



I've noticed JD himself has shoved what looks like some foam or felt under the strings at the tailpiece.