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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Preamp recommendation


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.resohangout.com/archive/54666

majorjer - Posted - 02/04/2021:  09:55:31


I have a Fishman pickup installed on my covergirl square neck and Fishman recommends a preamp of matching impedance for best results. Can NE1 recommend a brand? All replies welcomed.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 02/04/2021:  11:57:25


Jerry - you have 2 separate threads going on this subject. You should delete the other one so that replies aren't showing up on two separate but identical threads. 



Fishman pickup - which one?



The Nashville, or the "donut" that mounts underneath the cone inside the guitar? 


Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 02/04/2021 11:57:44

majorjer - Posted - 02/04/2021:  12:01:12


Split that is
sandwiched in the aluminum spider .piezoelectric

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 02/04/2021:  13:00:16


That's the Nashville pickup. 



I have used multiple preamps with the pickup. They all do the job. 



An older Fishman Platinum.



L.R. Bags Para Acoustic D.I.  



ART Tube MP (contains an actual tube). 



Radial J48 active direct box.



The Radial is my favorite of the four, but it requires phantom power from a sound board, though some acoustic amps have phantom  power. Jerry Douglas used this one for a number of years, though he has switched to a more elaborate unit from Grace Designs. 



There are a bunch of newer products out there that look pretty cool, but it can be like chasing down a rabbit hole after them armed with a credit card. 



And at this time I still have no idea when I will be playing again out in public so as far as upgrading I'm steering clear of the rabbit hole. 

toddborger - Posted - 02/04/2021:  13:02:01


In the other parallel post, it sounded as if the OP is using the Jerry Douglas Aura already. Is that a preamp? I've seen users here refer to it as a preamp, but Fishman never calls it that, as far as I can tell. I have been a little confused about that.

resotom - Posted - 02/04/2021:  13:23:12


I have used a K&K preamp for a few years...no problems... just dial in your tone settings.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 02/04/2021:  13:34:12


quote:

Originally posted by toddborger

In the other parallel post, it sounded as if the OP is using the Jerry Douglas Aura already. Is that a preamp? I've seen users here refer to it as a preamp, but Fishman never calls it that, as far as I can tell. I have been a little confused about that.






I guess I assumed you already have a JD Aura and you were looking for something to give it more of a boost.



If you don't have you should. 



On its own it actually works okay. There have been a number of times where I have plugged it into an amp or run to a board without a preamp. It does boost the signal slightly.



I don't have the link handy but Howard Parker did a nice job awhile back in producing a video on the dobro signal chain.  You can find it in the Search function. And Jerry's Rig Rundown with Premier Guitar Magazine online is available on YouTube and his website. Excellent, but they emphasize the lap steel more than the dobro. But the dobro is simpler - or if not, it should be than an electric instrument. 

GONE - Posted - 02/04/2021:  16:57:40


Audio Sprockets Tone Dexter.

toddborger - Posted - 02/05/2021:  07:42:17



I guess I assumed you already have a JD Aura and you were looking for something to give it more of a boost.



If you don't have you should. 



On its own it actually works okay. There have been a number of times where I have plugged it into an amp or run to a board without a preamp. It does boost the signal slightly.



 






Mark,



I don't want to hijack this post, but it is related to the question. If I need to open a new thread I would be happy to do so. And I apologize if this is a stupid question, but I am having a hard time thinking through the tech side of these things. (And before anyone says anything, my day-job is a professor, and yes, there are a great number of stupid questions. wink) When I get some time, I will go back through Howard's video also. I am sure that he answers my question somewhere in there.



Right now I have my dobro (with Nahsville pickup) plugged into the JD Aura pedal and running through one or two effects pedals. At church, they have a DI box for me to plug into, and then to the sound board. That is working right now. Due to a few events and conversations, however, I have been wondering if they are getting enough signal from me.



So just to be clear from what you were saying, if I were to add a pre-amp/DI at the end of the chain, that would boost the signal going to the board?

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 02/05/2021:  10:41:36


quote:

Originally posted by toddborger


I guess I assumed you already have a JD Aura and you were looking for something to give it more of a boost.



If you don't have you should. 



On its own it actually works okay. There have been a number of times where I have plugged it into an amp or run to a board without a preamp. It does boost the signal slightly.



 






Mark,



 



Right now I have my dobro (with Nahsville pickup) plugged into the JD Aura pedal and running through one or two effects pedals. At church, they have a DI box for me to plug into, and then to the sound board. That is working right now. Due to a few events and conversations, however, I have been wondering if they are getting enough signal from me.



So just to be clear from what you were saying, if I were to add a pre-amp/DI at the end of the chain, that would boost the signal going to the board?






Playing and singing in the church band - first got involved myself 20 years ago and because of the novelty of being a dobro and lap steel player, I've guested with other churches from time to time. No one would ever mistake me for Jerry Douglas, but It helps when you're "the only game in town." wink



Yes, a preamp at the end of the signal chain. You're likely plugging into a passive DI box that has a 3 prong XLR output jack going into an XLR cable which runs to the board. The board also likely has phantom power. You often have to remind the sound guy to turn on the switch to your channel if your preamp has phantom power - they have a tendency to forget. ??



No doubt if your church is of at least moderate size there is an equipment room, or area backstage with shelves of gear.  Often there will be a preamp found that you can experiment with, and one of the most popular is the L.R. Baggs Para-Acoustic DI I posted about earlier. Or maybe one of the acoustic guitar players has a preamp you can check out during rehearsal. All of the preamps I mentioned have an XLR output, so you no longer use the passive DI box but plug the cable from the board into the preamp. 



When I first the got Fishman Nashville p'up installed into my main guitar several years ago I spent about an hour one Saturday afternoon at my church with a guy named Greg who was a highly respected designer and consultant  of sound systems for churches in Northern California along with secular venues. He has since moved to Idaho.



Greg would also run sound from time to time for some big name acts that would be touring through the region. That hour I spent with him was worth its weight in gold for getting my plugged in dobro sound dialed. 


Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 02/05/2021 10:49:06

toddborger - Posted - 02/06/2021:  04:05:40


Mark,

Thanks. That was really helpful. I might check these things out at our next rehearsal. We are at a moderately large church (for NC; if it was in Northern California, it would be a mega-church smiley). I'll ask about the pre-amp. 

(Okay. My hijacking of the thread has ended now. You may go back to your regular scheduled program.)

wlgiii - Posted - 02/06/2021:  07:45:23


Another vote for the ART tube preamp- I've used it for acoustic instruments on stage including double bass, as well as recording into the computer. It's small, simple, functional, and has phantom power.

Mandobart - Posted - 02/12/2021:  06:10:09


There is a lot of folklore, fiction and fantasy on the various fora regarding piezoelectric pickups, preamps and impedance.



A microphone or magnetic pickup will have an output impedance in the kilohm range (1000's of ohms). Over the decades of amplified sound most amps and PA's have input channels set up to match this impedance.



Piezoelectric pickups as passive devices have output impedance in the medium range (millions of ohms). Plugging one of these into a standard electric guitar amp or PA results in an impedance mis-match, which causes signal loss, and a harsh, brittle or tinny sound.



This is why there are DI's and preamps - to match the impedance, not necessarily to boost the signal (although some models do that as well).



Many acoustic electric instruments have built in preamps already. If you have to change a battery in your instrument, you already have a preamp.



I have installed passive piezo's in over 20 instruments now - fiddles, mandolins, ukuleles, banjos, guitars, upright bass...

I prefer passive twin heads and external preamps.



I've used the ART tube, Behringer ADI21, K&K Pure and RedEye. The RedEye is the simplest and best, but they all work.



I have a Carvin AG300 acoustic amp with a high impedance (HI Z) setting. When I play through it I don't need any DI or preamp at all because the impedance is already matched. Most acoustic amps and many PA's feature this.



Note that adding a decent preamp when you don't necessarily need one usually won't hurt anything.  It just adds more cables and "stuff" to your signal chain, with the potential to add noise as well at each interface.  I'm a "simple is good, simpler is better" type of person.


Edited by - Mandobart on 02/12/2021 06:14:35

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