RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  09:21:18

I see there are two Scheerhorn’s on eBay from Japan. One has an extended fret board. I really have to wonder about the legitimacy of these ads.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 03/24/2021:  09:32:15

Right off those Scheerhorns look like Nati-horns to me  - with ridiculous prices.

RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  09:33:53

When you go to description, it says no description. I mean who sells a $10,000 guitar without a description and some history. Just seems odd to me.

RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  09:35:49

I wish there was a way to ask Tim if he really built these guitars.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 03/24/2021:  12:35:15

Links on eBay are about a mile long and can mess with viewing them on your computer or phone screen, so I've shortened them into tinyurls.

The maple:  tinyurl.com/bvwc792v

The rosewood/spruce: tinyurl.com/7swn4ffj

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 03/24/2021 12:36:57

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 03/24/2021:  12:51:56

The rosewood spruce with an extended fretboard? I'm not saying that I have knowledge about how many guitars Tim built with extended fretboards, but the first one I remember seeing is Greg Booth's and I believe his serial number is in the 600s. Both of these guitars on eBay are in the low 300s and listed as "brand new."



"Custom Rob Ickes model with extended fretboard." Tim never built a Rob Ickes model - or any kind of signature model. He designed the Wechter/Scheerhorn Ickes, and the current Nati-horn Ickes.



The color scheme of the finish on the maple guitar - I've seen some Nati-horn customs that are fairly similar. Not saying that Tim never built a guitar with this finish scheme - he produced as I recall over 700 guitars in his career - but if I were a betting man I'd put my money on it being a Nati-horn.



Even if these are photos of Nati-horns, as posted by Eddy - are these even legitimate listings? Two guitars in the $9K range and next to nothing regarding information in the description. Yeah, sure - "honey, can you please bring my wallet in here - I need the Visa card." This has bogusness written all over it...

In fairness to what is written in the listings, the seller never stated that these are Tim-built Scheerhorns. They are simply listed as Scheerhorns. We just automatically assume at those prices they must be Tim-builds. There was the Brazilian rosewood/Adirondack custom I played at National a couple years back they offered to me @ $8500, but the maple in this listing is for sale at almost $1000 more. No effing way.



I don't have current contact information for Tim, but others here do. Of course we could also contact National and get their take on it.

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 03/24/2021 12:59:26

RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  12:54:11

Mark,
I think your right these were made in California by National and they are trying to pass them off as the real deal. This is very unfortunate for someone who doesn’t know any better, too bad there’s people doing this it’s just bad for the community in general.

RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  13:05:48

quote:

---

Originally posted by RezBluez

Mark,

I think your right these were made in California by National and they are trying to pass them off as the real deal. This is very unfortunate for someone who doesn’t know any better, too bad there’s people doing this it’s just bad for the community in general.

Edit: I reported these to eBay as fakes  

---

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 03/24/2021:  13:23:47

Good move Eddy. Is there a way to follow up and see about the result? I'm not much of an ebayer. I did live about a mile down the road from their future headquarters in San Jose when I was first married in the '80s but it's been years since I purchased anything on the site.

As far as someone getting fleeced who doesn't know any better - anyone who would pay those prices without due diligence would be to quote the great Foghorn Leghorn, "about as sharp as a sack of wet mice."

 

RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  13:31:41

Mark, no, they say that they cannot share anything with me that comes of it. Hopefully they make them remove them. Or at least describe them for what they really are, before someone pays $ 10,000 for a $4000 guitar.

Three_Eyed_Willy - Posted - 03/24/2021:  14:30:26

The "Rob Ickes" instrument is obviously a National. Why should you pay $8600 USD plus shipping (and whatever fees the customs people want to tack onto it.) when you can get the same instrument from National for $4600 plus shipping?

It may be difficult to have these removed as fakes, because (evidently) National has the rights to the Scheerhorn design, and I'm sure Tim is getting a cut of the take. I don't see anything illegal here. I see a possible moral issue over the fact that these are not being represented as National products.

Then there is the "idiot factor."

RezBluez - Posted - 03/24/2021:  15:29:47

Willy,
I know what your saying. These sellers (personally I think it’s the same guy selling both even thought it shows two different sellers) Know exactly what they are doing. They didn’t say it was a Tim built guitar, but the problem is they didn’t say it was a national either. So for the price they are asking they are leading people to believe it’s a Tim built.
I checked the feedback from their other sales and it isn’t very good. They have a lot of negative strikes and upset people. They have no description or history, so they are not being upfront. I think they are hoping to catch someone not paying attention. Hoping to sell a $4000 guitar for twice what it’s worth, to someone who may not be schooled on the two different makers.
The whole thing is fishy to me, could be they don’t even have these in their possession, that wouldn’t be a first either for these scammers.

sovio - Posted - 03/24/2021:  16:06:55

Caveat Emptor !

Three_Eyed_Willy - Posted - 03/24/2021:  19:28:39

I come from the "Dark World of the Five String Banjo" -- where evildoers post photos of instruments that are actually from the web sites of others, and where a pre-war tenor banjo can be turned into as many as six "pre-war conversion five -string banjos".

I'm seldom surprised at the lengths people will go to in order to separate the gilpins* from their spondulicks.** And I'm even less surprised at how many gilpins there are out there. I definitely won't pay twice retail for an instrument I can't seize in my hot, grubby little forepaws.

*gilpin -- obscure carny term for - rube or mark
*spondulick -- obscure carny term for money

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 03/25/2021:  13:52:47

I see the guitar listings are still active on eBay.



There isn't anything inherently illegal about the prices if the seller actually owns the guitars and it isn't a scam - I guess the individual is throwing the line into the water to see what can be hooked under the theory of "there's a sucker born every minute."

The only  way the rosewood/spruce guitar could command the asking price is if the rosewood were Brazilian, but it sure looks like East Indian to me. And it's pretty straight-grained. Unless it came out of a private stash that's been waiting for many years to be made into a guitar - Brazilian tonewood sets haven't been available with straight grain like that for a long time, and when they have it has been in minute quantities. 

And if it turned out that it is in fact Brazilian rosewood, you would have to be pretty clueless not to bring that up in big capital letters in your eBay listing.

RezBluez - Posted - 03/25/2021:  14:54:37

Mark,
The weirdest thing is that he’s asking more for the maple than the rosewood. The rosewood spruce model is the highest priced one national makes. But supposedly they are both new.
I am watching them on there, and this morning I got 2 emails saying you have seller offer of 10% off. Both emails arrived exactly at the same time, but from two different stores. Why does this guy have so many stores, it’s probably so no one can catch up with him. His feedback rating on one store is only 90, on eBay that is a horrible score. I guess you can tell what I told him to do with his offers.
Doesn’t look like eBay cares so I’ll just watch and see what happens, I tried.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 03/25/2021:  15:55:00

The maple guitar being higher - we hit on that one in an earlier post.

I guess you have to go through the whole drill to be able ask questions of the seller. It's been years since I have had an eBay account. 

 

I wanted to ask, "can I see a photo of the label on the inside back of the guitars - does it read that that they are made in San Luis Obispo, California?"

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 03/25/2021 15:55:35

Jim McNab - Posted - 03/25/2021:  18:06:43

I've seen Scheerhorns just like these from this seller before and the prices were the same. When I contacted him/her about one of them because I pretty much knew these were Nationals based on the color scheme of the maple (I've never seen a burst color like that on a Tim 'horn) and the dead give away color of the flamed maple headstock on the R/S, the seller never got back to me. All I asked was the serial number and whether these were built by National in California. The silence and non-response made me believe either this person was trying to pass them off as Tim built guitars or they weren't really in possession of said guitars. These appear to be the same pictures that were used before, but I'm basing that purely on recollection. And I haven't have Prevagen....God knows we all need the mental acuity and powers of memory that jellyfish possess!

WW - Posted - 04/10/2021:  11:02:26

Did anybody notice this one from last month?  Advertised as National-made, but was the real thing.  

ebay.com/itm/Scheerhorn-Nation...675.l2557

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 04/10/2021:  11:15:35

Yeah, it was noticed  - and gone very quickly - because the pawn shop owner didn't know what he or she had. 

Jim McNab - Posted - 04/10/2021:  19:05:05

That actually made me cry. Wish I had seen that when it was active!