Flixxkixx - Posted - 10/05/2022:  19:35:53

I found a beautiful Regal square-neck dobro on sale in a violin shop this summer. It was a consignment piece and the shop owner didn’t know anything about it. I’ve been trying for months to figure out how old it is and where it was made, with no luck. The closest I’ve found is a post that had a 1936 catalog page that had a #45 pictured. It’s still not the same but closest I’ve found.





The label on the headstock has the green Regal with the crown, and it says Trademark Regal San Francisco.





The end of the headstock has 1368 stamped on it.





Mother of pearl dots on 5, 7, 9, and 15 frets, and 2 dots on 12 and 19 frets.





I know these are a bear to identify with any certainty, so any and all help will be very much appreciated! I will also upload photos of everything that might be useful for an ID. Thanks in advance!

Edited by - Flixxkixx on 10/05/2022 19:55:37

Back

Front

Serial number and head type

 

docslyd - Posted - 10/05/2022:  20:47:12

This is not a vintage Regal, rather Chinese made in recent years. I am not an authority, others will come along that can date this for you but, in my opinion, the date is irrelevant as they are neither collectible nor loved.

Flixxkixx - Posted - 10/05/2022:  21:42:38

I know it’s valued; 2 people other than me tried to buy it. I beat them to it. But regardless of that, doesn’t it have to say Made in China or something like that on it? And I was told the ones made in China nowadays don’t have the headstock stamped serial number. Is that not correct?

I don’t care about collectible, and it is loved because I love it. Neither of those is what I was asking about. I am looking for something definitive, if possible, that tells when and where it was made. It doesn’t match the photos or descriptions of anything newer made in China either.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 10/05/2022:  21:46:25

To follow up on Eric's post, the reason it reads "San Francisco" on the headstock is because that is the headquarters of Saga Music, the owner of the  modern iteration of Regal.

The original Regal company of Chicago went out of business in 1954.

To go back to around 13 years earlier, Dobros were no longer produced by Regal just prior to the beginning of WW2 because metal was needed for the war effort.  The modern iteration of Regal dobros were  produced in Asia beginning  around 1987.  This is the  same company that has Blueridge Guitars, Kentucky mandolins, Golden Gate thumbpicks and a whole bunch of other products. 

You can contact Saga Music in the Bay Area and they can tell you when it was made by the serial number. When they first started having dobros built in the latter '80s I believe it was in South Korea. As time went on the labor was cheaper in China so a lot of importers made the switch. 

What I have seen in Chinese built guitars of all types is a sticker somewhere on the neck indicating as much. Pretty easy to peel off. 

 

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 10/05/2022 21:54:46

Flixxkixx - Posted - 10/05/2022:  21:59:30

Thanks for the information, MarkinSonoma
I’ll check with Saga for more information. I had heard they built not-so-great instruments, but this one disproves that. Beautiful sound!

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 10/06/2022:  05:57:42

It might be one of the early guitars built in Korea. The ones I have seen from China in more recent years typically have the serial number on the backside of the headstock. 

The guy who started Saga used to own a music store in San Francisco many years ago. With the number stamped into the headstock it is reminiscent of a prewar Dobro, perhaps in the early years  of the modern Regal brand they did that on a regular basis, but I don't recall if that's the case. 

And there's the off chance that it is an old Regal and the original decal was ruined so someone got a hold of a modern decal with San Francisco on it and put it on there. But I doubt it - from those photos it looks like a Saga Regal to me. And I've never seen wood  grain like that on the back of a prewar Regal or Dobro, it looks modern. 

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 10/06/2022 06:01:37

resotom - Posted - 10/06/2022:  08:52:52

Pre-war Regals had a trapeze rail piece.
With a Dobro decal on the head stock.
Just like my prewar Regal/Dobro model 45..

Flixxkixx - Posted - 10/06/2022:  09:33:57

I’m not saying mine is a pre-war Regal. Although the San Francisco on the label gave me brief thoughts it might be, I know Regal mostly only made the metalware in Frisco before they moved to Chicago.

I only included the thought about the model 45 because it was the closest I could find to what mine looks like as far as coloration and the tuners at right-angles. I was not aware that all pre-war models had Dobro on the head stock. Hadn’t seen that tidbit before, and since I had seen one place that referred to the Regal crown label specifically as being a Regal before Saga, I had hoped it was still manufactured in the US.

I’ve sent an email to Saga and am awaiting their reply. Thanks for the input.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 10/06/2022:  09:50:46

quote:

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Originally posted by resotom

Pre-war Regals had a trapeze rail piece.

With a Dobro decal on the head stock.

Just like my prewar Regal/Dobro model 45..

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Tom, apparently you don't own a copy of Steve Toth's excellent book which came eight years ago: Dobro Roots - A Photo Tour of Prewar Wood Body Dobros

Anyone with an interest in these old guitars should have a copy. 

In the post below the guitar on the left is circa 1935 and it indeed has a "Regal - Made in Chicago" decal on the headstock. It also has a trapeze tailpiece. Though Regal badged guitars weren't particularly common, they weren't all that rare either. 

The guitar on the right is a round shoulder Regal-built Model 37 circa 1936. It has the Dobro logo, and also a typical Dobro tailpiece. The round shoulder design was a Regal innovation, as was the solid headstock. All of the earlier Los Angeles-built Dobros had slotted headstocks. 

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 10/06/2022 10:05:18

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 10/06/2022:  10:02:31

I added the  headstock of the guitar on the right. 

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 10/06/2022 10:03:25

 

resotom - Posted - 10/06/2022:  12:59:39

Thanks Mark for the info. I do have Steve Toth's book... I will review it later .

allthumbs49 - Posted - 10/06/2022:  17:30:45

I also think its a modern one, most likely Korea made. I had a Korea built one from the tail end of the run before they moved production to China. Mine had no serial numbers and a metal sticker on the back of the headstock stating “Made in South Korea” or something like that. You didn’t have to remove them; they fell off eventually from normal wear and tear.

Mine was set up by Janet Davis and was a great playing but not a great sounding instrument.

If it was pre war the cone would be stamped (unless replaced) while the newer ones are all spun.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 10/07/2022:  08:49:21

quote:

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Originally posted by allthumbs49.

If it was pre war the cone would be stamped (unless replaced) while the newer ones are all spun.

---

Incorrect - though the majority of prewar Dobros came with stamped and lugged cones, there were also spun cones. In other words, the technology of spinning cones didn't originate at OMI Dobro in the 1970s, it began in the prewar era. This is discussed in Steve Toth's book along with an interview he did with Rob Anderlik. I have read about it elsewhere, for example an interview with John Dopyera himself.