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 ARCHIVED TOPIC: Gretsch 9212 Honey dipper square neck alteration to spider bridge ?


Please note this is an archived topic, so it is locked and unable to be replied to. You may, however, start a new topic and refer to this topic with a link: http://www.resohangout.com/archive/57328

authorizedbootleg - Posted - 11/17/2022:  15:10:10


Hi all, Still relatively new to reso playing but have done a couple of years charity busking with my Gtretsch bobtail. I have been gathering a few more reso's to try, Regal, Dobro, but I have a question regarding my latest Gretsch honey dipper square neck brass bodied 9212. When it arrived second hand I didn't look at the bridge and just tuned it GBDGBD then noticed the bridge had collapsed, don't know if it was like it before I tuned it or not. Anyway, all my other reso's have spider bridges which to me seems a much stronger bridge than the biscuit type pressing on the cone as this did. Can I change this guitar to a spider bridge set up instead, anyone tried it ? thanks

daver - Posted - 11/17/2022:  16:29:25


quote:

Originally posted by authorizedbootleg

Hi all, Still relatively new to reso playing but have done a couple of years charity busking with my Gtretsch bobtail. I have been gathering a few more reso's to try, Regal, Dobro, but I have a question regarding my latest Gretsch honey dipper square neck brass bodied 9212. When it arrived second hand I didn't look at the bridge and just tuned it GBDGBD then noticed the bridge had collapsed, don't know if it was like it before I tuned it or not. Anyway, all my other reso's have spider bridges which to me seems a much stronger bridge than the biscuit type pressing on the cone as this did. Can I change this guitar to a spider bridge set up instead, anyone tried it ? thanks






Short answer:  No



Long answer:  The spider bridge guitar has a 10.5" or slightly larger diameter cone, opening upward, on a cone shelf that is about 1/4" deep, give or take.  The biscuit bridge cone is 9.5" diameter, opening downward, on a cone shelf at least 1" deep (don't have an exact measurement).  The spider bridge cone would not fit in the biscuit bridge opening.  Even if it did (there are "mandolin" sized spider bridge cones out there, but as best I know, no one stocks them), it would sit too low on the cone shelf to be practical.  The modifications to a wood bodied guitar to convert biscuit to spider would be extensive and far exceed the value of the guitar.  The modifications to a metal bodied guitar would be even more extensive and require welding!



If the cone has collapsed, you'll likely need a new cone (it's possible to re-form a cone but that takes some skill and practice and it may not be quite right) and perhaps a new biscuit and saddle.  When the guitar is set up for playing, I'd recommend a shallow break angle for the strings overt the bridge to the tailpiece, because the biscuit bridge cone is less structurally sound than the spider bridge cone as you guessed.  Spider bridge break angle is around 3 to 5 degrees; you might shoot for 2 degrees on the biscuit bridge.  DISCLAIMER:  This paragraph is the ranting of an inveterate tinkerer.  I would do my own setup, you may not wish to or be able to.  Unless you are skilled in resonator guitar setup, please take this to someone who is.



 

tomkatb - Posted - 11/17/2022:  17:01:37


You have what can be a good sounding different guitar. I Like mine. Tuned to open D.

A new biscuit, saddle and cone is likely under $100.

This design has been used for almost 100 years.

I suspect someone sat on the box.

Anonyrat - Posted - 11/18/2022:  03:37:00


I suspect someone sat on the box.



.... And along came a spider and sat down ......

authorizedbootleg - Posted - 11/18/2022:  10:42:15


quote:

Originally posted by daver

quote:

Originally posted by authorizedbootleg

Hi all, Still relatively new to reso playing but have done a couple of years charity busking with my Gtretsch bobtail. I have been gathering a few more reso's to try, Regal, Dobro, but I have a question regarding my latest Gretsch honey dipper square neck brass bodied 9212. When it arrived second hand I didn't look at the bridge and just tuned it GBDGBD then noticed the bridge had collapsed, don't know if it was like it before I tuned it or not. Anyway, all my other reso's have spider bridges which to me seems a much stronger bridge than the biscuit type pressing on the cone as this did. Can I change this guitar to a spider bridge set up instead, anyone tried it ? thanks






Short answer:  No



Long answer:  The spider bridge guitar has a 10.5" or slightly larger diameter cone, opening upward, on a cone shelf that is about 1/4" deep, give or take.  The biscuit bridge cone is 9.5" diameter, opening downward, on a cone shelf at least 1" deep (don't have an exact measurement).  The spider bridge cone would not fit in the biscuit bridge opening.  Even if it did (there are "mandolin" sized spider bridge cones out there, but as best I know, no one stocks them), it would sit too low on the cone shelf to be practical.  The modifications to a wood bodied guitar to convert biscuit to spider would be extensive and far exceed the value of the guitar.  The modifications to a metal bodied guitar would be even more extensive and require welding!



If the cone has collapsed, you'll likely need a new cone (it's possible to re-form a cone but that takes some skill and practice and it may not be quite right) and perhaps a new biscuit and saddle.  When the guitar is set up for playing, I'd recommend a shallow break angle for the strings overt the bridge to the tailpiece, because the biscuit bridge cone is less structurally sound than the spider bridge cone as you guessed.  Spider bridge break angle is around 3 to 5 degrees; you might shoot for 2 degrees on the biscuit bridge.  DISCLAIMER:  This paragraph is the ranting of an inveterate tinkerer.  I would do my own setup, you may not wish to or be able to.  Unless you are skilled in resonator guitar setup, please take this to someone who is.



Thanks for the very detailed reply, I guess the guitar is worth me buying a new cone etc. Pity you can't buy the original parts that Gretsch use.






 

authorizedbootleg - Posted - 11/18/2022:  10:50:39


quote:

Originally posted by tomkatb

You have what can be a good sounding different guitar. I Like mine. Tuned to open D.



A new biscuit, saddle and cone is likely under $100.



This design has been used for almost 100 years.



I suspect someone sat on the box.




No, the box wasn't sat on. It arrived with the strings slack in a new Gretsch case with bubble wrap around that and cardboard box on the outside. I am undecided how the damage was done ?  The courier didn't deliver on the day they was supposed to although they said they tried, but I was in. Did they tamper with the guitar that evening then deliver to me next day. The cardboard was easily removed and the case not locked. Or did the sender send it damaged ? Or did I damage it buy tuning GBDGBD ? I'll never know. It's a nice guitar apart from that and worth repairing. 







 

hlpdobro - Posted - 11/18/2022:  12:01:07


If the guitar was not shipped under at least modest tension (not pitch) the internals easily can get knocked around. I personally shipped 300 cased guitars a year for 9 years. There's a tried and true method. Shipping with no tension isn't part of that method.

All water under the bridge for your purchase.

h

authorizedbootleg - Posted - 11/18/2022:  12:58:24


quote:

Originally posted by hlpdobro

If the guitar was not shipped under at least modest tension (not pitch) the internals easily can get knocked around. I personally shipped 300 cased guitars a year for 9 years. There's a tried and true method. Shipping with no tension isn't part of that method.



All water under the bridge for your purchase.



Yes, another possibility, thanks



h






 

miktavus - Posted - 11/19/2022:  01:02:38


I've recently intalled a nut raiser on my Korean made Harley Benton metal bodied round neck guitar which I bought about 20 years ago. Shortly after I bought it I swapped the cone and biscuit for a National brand which sweetened the sound - the original cone was rather harsh.

I installed the raiser as I wasn't playing it, and I've played Dobro for the last 12+ years. I was a bit concerned about the string pressure from GBDgbd tuning on a non-spider bridge but it's not been a problem, it works well and there's no signs of distress. I suspect damage to your cone may have occurred prior to your purchase and threfore I'd suggest a replacement.

authorizedbootleg - Posted - 11/19/2022:  09:01:27


Thanks for your reply, Yes, I think it was sent out to me in that condition and I did not notice the bridge had collapsed under the chrome cover. I tuned to GBDGBD and noticed the bridge collapsed. I think I just have to find a replacement cone but not so much choice in UK I think

Biggfoot44 - Posted - 01/05/2023:  18:30:50


30 seconds of google , and Thomen stocks the National Resophonic Hot Rod cone for that , and they ship worldwide .

£ 142 , but it's the go to upgrade cone for biscuit cones .

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