JC Dobro - Posted - 09/20/2024:  07:24:30

Photo shows my National Scheerhorn-L and Wechter-Scheerhorn (Ickes model) resonators side by side.  (Natl is on Left, W/S on Right).



The W/S was bought as a "shell" and equipped with Beard #14 and Legend cone, plus other Beard and Hipshot components, and set up by Byrl Mudrock. It was/is intended as a travel and campfire/festival jam guitar.



Both are rippers.



I confess I enjoy playing the W/S better, as the skinnier waist slots in perfectly to my right hip while standing, and overall playability and tone make it fun.



I understand there were some quality issues on the W/S imports, so I stop short of any type of endorsement. However, if any deals are to be had, MAYBE these can be good budget options assuming one has quality components and a professional setup.



YMMV. I am sure there are some duds out there.



The W/S seems to be some type of cross between and R (std) and L body.



Dimensions:



Upper bout 10.5"

Lower bout 14.5"

Waist ~8 11/16"

Depth (thickness) 3.5" at neck block, approx 3 15/16" at tail block



Total length of body is about 1/2" shorter than the Natl Scheerhorn.



My W/S likes Nickel-bronze strings. I cannot get a pleasing tone (to me) with PBs. The NBs give it "bite".



National works with either type of string, to my ears.



Anyhow, I haven't totally pegged the whys and wherefores on the W/S, as it seems an odd (and now defunct) project.

Edited by - JC Dobro on 09/20/2024 07:25:05

W/S

 

Lounge Primate - Posted - 09/20/2024:  07:48:30

I have a Wechter “Ickehorn” too that I bought from Rob Ickes the first year they came out. A nice guitar. The first thing I did was peel off the rather weird tortoise pick guard that sits at the base of the neck (I noticed your project doesn’t have one).



I do notice that the inlaid wood fret markers make it more of a challenge for low-light night and campfire playing (as compared to real frets).



It will be a project guitar for me this winter with an attempt to install a Nashville fishman bridge and a new Scheerhorn cone. Never done it myself.



There are definitely some deals out there and keep an open mind on different models. For example, I have an all maple Gibson/Leadbetter dobro (which has a very mediocre at best reputation) that Beard installed a Quarterman Cone, Nashville bridge. For whatever reason (maple? open soundwell? Screens intact? Dry and brittle wood that resonates? Magic stardust?) it is just a wonderful sounding and playing guitar in open D, which is what I play mostly. In G, it is a little bit ice-picky, at least to my ears. And as you mentioned about how the W/S seems to fit you, the same is true of this Leadbetter dobro. And like a well worn field gun, I don't worry about it (as much) in rough and raucous  surroundings. It is my main guitar…..and I have Tim-built that stays mostly in the man-cave surrounded by claymores.

Edited by - Lounge Primate on 09/20/2024 07:56:11

SamCy - Posted - 09/20/2024:  12:40:53

Be aware that the Wechter-Scheerhorn resos came with an import spider.  It was about 30% heavier than a #14. Much more responsive and more power in the treble with a #14 or equivalent.

Edited by - SamCy on 09/20/2024 12:50:08

Lounge Primate - Posted - 09/20/2024:  14:32:04

Thanks Sam. I’m planning on getting the parts and adjustable #14 from Beard.

JC Dobro - Posted - 09/20/2024:  15:56:38

Yeah, in fairness, I’ve only heard my W/S with a #14 and Legend cone…as I purchased it without the stock innards.

Lounge, good luck with your project! I have a Fishman Nashville pup in mine, and while I haven’t gigged w/ it, the trial runs on the acoustic amp have been on par with my other (more expensive) pup-equipped resos.

docslyd - Posted - 09/20/2024:  17:27:03

I'm not aware of any quality issues with the Wechter guitars even though were built in China. I was at NAMM with Abe the first couple of years he introduced them and I thought they sounded and played fine. However, they were set up by Abe's team at Wechter Guitars, which was trained by Tim. In that regard, I would suggest any playability/tonal issues have to do with the set up like any other resonator guitar. Like National, in my opinion, trained by Tim or supervised by Tim is not the same as being Tim. I agree with Jamie in that the W/S guitars are a good value and can sound just fine with the right setup.  I believe the "defunction" of the Wechter/Scheerhorn started shortly after Abe went to work for Sweetwater and sold them the guitar line.  I'm not sure of the dynamic at the time but it could have been that Sweetwater didn't see continuing them as a profitable venture.

Edited by - docslyd on 09/20/2024 17:29:46

JC Dobro - Posted - 09/21/2024:  05:34:24

The other thing that’s odd about these guitars (hence my “enigma” comment)…

The body shape suggests an “R” (standard), whereas the body depth at ~4” is a full L-body spec. Yet the W/S waist is narrower than even the Scheerhorn “R” (standard).

So this is a “tweener” with attributes of both R and L bodies.

With Tim’s reputation for exacting standards (down to the baffle), I wonder what factors (other than cost) drove this design.

Lounge Primate - Posted - 09/21/2024:  08:33:20

I would guess that Abe’s builders in China used the same templates and jigs for the Ickehorn that they used for the other Wechter models (mahogany ply with f-holes for example, I owned one of those years ago), and then simply substituted rosewood plywood, spruce ply top, and round open sound-rings, and inserted the plastic baffle.

and I should add, that's the difference, as I understand it, between the Wechters vs. the National 'Horns.  The Nationals are made in USA and built *exactly* to Tim's specs, with his training and overseeing.

Edited by - Lounge Primate on 09/21/2024 08:47:57

Lounge Primate - Posted - 09/21/2024:  08:56:04

For example:
elderly.com/products/wechter-s...0u-219253

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 09/21/2024:  10:35:40

In addition to the Nati-horns being the same dimensions as a Scheerhorn L-Body, they are also of course solid wood as opposed to the plywood of the Wechter/Scheerhorn. 

I spoke to a guy at Sweetwater around 11 years ago when I called inquiring about some other product, and at some point the conversation turned to the frugal'horn (I think it was "shpiderman" who fellow members of the old Jerry Douglas Forum will remember came up with that moniker). 

This was at the end of the Wechter/Scheerhorn era and the Sweetwater guy  told me that the quality control was getting well - out of control. When the shipping containers arrived in Indiana it was getting to the point that there were too many "lemons" which had to be rejected and this making it to where the product line was no longer viable as it was getting to be too much of a hassle to deal with. 

Too bad, because in an interview with Tim Scheerhorn a number of years ago he commented that the Wechter/Scheerhorns were the best seller in the Wechter product line. 

The Icke'horn to me always had something extra compared to the other models and I was never sure why, because until you get up to the high end Finnish birch veneer that Beard uses in some their guitars (like the Mike Auldridge model) there doesn't seem to be much if any difference among plywood guitar wood in more budget oriented guitars among the different species of wood. Maybe the plywood in the Icke'horn was of a superior grade? I never knew, or have ever heard about that one way or the other. 

Of course Rob Ickes was receiving some sort of royalty or compensation for his endorsement which would explain some of the higher price but as I recall the street price of his model was around ballpark $500-$600 more than the others, which was a big gap in Chinese built guitars. 

I've told this story in the past, I'll never forget the Icke'horn Rob and Jennifer had for sale at the merch table at ResoSummit 2010 in Nashville. It had been set up by Tim Scheerhorn himself the day prior -  it was a great sounding guitar and it could really project - Rob was standing  15-20 feet away when I was taking it for a test drive and he commented, "Man -- that guitar is really loud!" 

I thought it sounded better than many guitars at the conference that week, including a lot of considerably more expensive boutique builds. 

I really wanted to take it back to California with me - but Mrs. In Sonoma wasn't particularly thrilled with me spending the dough to make the trip in the first place, so it ended up being yet another in a long line of guitars where I was close to pulling the Visa card out of my wallet, but after coming to my senses  the wallet returned to the back pocket of the Levi's...

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 09/21/2024 10:37:23

JC Dobro - Posted - 09/21/2024:  21:11:49

Good story, Mark. And I applaud your discipline…I my have succumbed to an impulse buy in that situation,



I did not realize there was a $500-600 premium on the Ickes model vs. the standard W/S. Hard to say what affect the rosewood/spruce plywood had on the tone of that one. I suspect the Tim setup was the big factor.



I posted this before, but this is Byrl Murdock doing the first “on the bench” picking on my W/S after he set it up. We were both pleased with the tone and volume he squeezed out. So the professional setup is important IMO, and well worth it if one has the opportunity to arrange for that.

youtu.be/r7Zje3GTVlU?si=2GRyHO13ExFlsyYd

little ray - Posted - 09/23/2024:  00:11:45

Mod. 6510r is a very impressive guitar in the WS line. A fine sounding resonator. Stacy Phillips owned and played one.

WGale - Posted - 09/23/2024:  05:05:25

I have two of them in my collection (we all have a collection don't we), a 6510F built in 2005 and an RS-6524R built in 2012. A few tears ago I did an upgrade on both of them to Beard Legend cone, #14 spider, Ebony/Maple inserts and locking tuners, made a big difference. Both guitars are flawless in construction and have nice sweet tone with plenty of volume.

SamCy - Posted - 09/23/2024:  14:01:24

See the internal view of the W/S with Tim's polycarbonate baffle.