MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/02/2024:  17:32:53

I have a 71 OMI dobro (profile picture). It has a bone nut and original spun cone. Sounds good but would like it brighter with better bass string response. Considering maple/ebony or Beard Shockwave saddles. Recommendation?

hlpdobro - Posted - 12/02/2024:  18:43:02

I think you have asked this before



IMHO, on most OMI designed guitars  (which will never sound like a contemporary build/design) , the best overall improvement would be to set up the guitar thusly:



bone nut

ebony/maple inserts

#14 spider

legend cone



If a square neck, adjust the action as high as the coverplate palm rest will allow while tuned to tension.



If a round neck, set action for playing style.



Inserts alone will certainly provide some tonal change but nowhere as dramatic as a full bore setup.



IMHO

FWIW

 

Edited by - hlpdobro on 12/02/2024 18:51:59

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/02/2024:  19:16:23

Thanks for your help ! Any experience with the Shockwave insert?

AradoReso - Posted - 12/03/2024:  02:40:57

Hello,



Please describe the “full bore setup” statement?



I am asking because maybe what I did to mine might qualify. My end results are the instrument plays like butter and sounds like Mike Auldrige’s guitar. Not his modern custom Beard model. The one in his tutorial videos. Thank you.



In order to install a Legend cone, the spider ledge needs to be widened. Beard didn’t make a drop-in OMI cone. Beard only makes modern Legend cones.

Edited by - AradoReso on 12/03/2024 02:42:39

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/03/2024:  04:52:32

Yep I’ve heard the Beard cone would have to be trimmed to fit the 10 1/2 inch dobro opening

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/03/2024:  04:54:01

And for context my style leans towards Uncle Josh Graves old school

hlpdobro - Posted - 12/03/2024:  06:33:22

Your right hand dictates style. That won't change.

My "full bore" comment essentially means you take it to a reso knowledgeable luthier who's equipped to handle a 50 y/o OMI build. The luthier knows that it's highly likely that the top has "egged out" in these guitars through the years and a cone replacement dictates (at least) making the top's hole perfectly round again (not trimming a cone). There are also other common issues with 50 y/o OMI's that should be inspected and addressed if needed. It's not just parts replacement.

As far as the Shock Waves go.... imho, they tend to lean towards "aggressive" with my right hand and in my guitars the ebony/maple inserts are a tad more "neutral" or "natural". My guitars now are all p/u equipped so take that fwiw.

You're in DC? How lucky for you (and me) as we are some of the few players that are close to the master. If he's good enough for Josh, Mike, Jerry, Andy and others he's in a position to assess your guitar's issues (if any) and recommend a course of action.

You the DIY type?

Then you learn be doing (and doing again) .

h

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/03/2024:  07:41:05

Hi Howard. Yep DC was a great place to grow up for Bluegrass particularly in the 70s DIY yes but I’m not a wood working expert and concerned about screwing up my OMI (I I know it’s not a pre-war but it’s still my baby)

hlpdobro - Posted - 12/03/2024:  07:55:45

I'd schedule a road trip. You'd learn a LOT!!

h

AradoReso - Posted - 12/03/2024:  08:51:38

Hello,

Quite awhile back, people were cutting out their wells to create a more airy sound. I didn’t notice that much of an improvement. Not much development happened after the first few OMI surgeries. Everyone wanted a big body instrument.

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/03/2024:  08:59:29

Considering the DIY jobs, I’ve done around my house. I think if I took a hammer and chisel to my 50-year-old who am I I trash it.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 12/03/2024:  13:01:49

As pointed out by Howard, the cone "shelf" might no longer be a perfect circle after all these years. So there's that.

Though showing as currently out of stock, another avenue to explore cone-wise and a direct drop in for OMI Dobros is from Mike Replogle here in Northern California. Mike ran Dobro for about four years (1993-1997) in Huntington Beach after Gibson acquired the company. When they pulled the plug on California and sent Dobro to Nashville, he declined not to make the move. But he started a parts company after that. You can check out the 10.5" cone here:

replogleresos.com/product/repl...2-series/

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 12/03/2024:  13:36:46

Should be "he declined to make the move (to Nashville)." I missed  the cutoff for the editing window.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 12/03/2024:  15:57:39

All that aside and since you live in DC,  setting up an appointment for a trip to Beard in Hagerstown is an absolute no-brainer.  I can't put it any more succinctly than that. 

 

BrianMac - Posted - 12/03/2024:  23:13:46

For something fun while in the area, I recommend going into Hagerstown the night before and purchasing 2 dozen do-nuts from Krumpe's.  A dozen for you and a dozen as a gift for Paul and the guys and gals at the Beard "factory". Only open 7pm to 11pm.

krumpesdonuts.com/

I was at Paul's shop several weeks back and although they appreciated the Dunkin' doughnuts I brought, I was made aware of Krumpe's in Hagerstown. Probably the best ever. Paul told me that  on occasion when Jerry comes through on limited time, he asks Paul to pick up Krumpe's for him!

I'm sure the workmanship will be fine even if you come empty handed! Paul and his son put a whippin' on my guitar. Much better.

Make sure and call 2 or 3 weeks ahead to set something up.

Edited by - BrianMac on 12/03/2024 23:14:34

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/04/2024:  04:49:13

Love it. After some thought and a Guinness I’ve decided to order the Legend cone. Starting to read up on fitting the cone to my OMI.

tomkatb - Posted - 12/04/2024:  06:29:12

I had Frank Harlow tune up several $500 guitars.

He used the #14 spiders and a HARD maple bridge. Quarterman cones.

When I picked up my Black Lightening I had two Chemistry/Physics teachers with me. My wife and her buddy. A trip to Franks was interesting.

As a structural guy I know the two piece bridges with a layer of glue would be structurally stronger. More break resistance. However I wondered about sound transmission thru two different densities and a layer of glue. The well educated teachers agreed.

Frank pulled out my old spider and another new #14 suspended on a string. He hit each with a small tuning fork. The difference in tone was amazing.

A new spider, bridge and cone is a good plan. A good luthier would install them for a reasonable price.

I want to take a trip to the Beard shop. The wife has drawn a line on new guitars however. 6 is the line for her. Unreasonable. I can afford one more.

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/04/2024:  09:05:38

I’m gonna DIY. Need to get clear on cutting vs sanding cone vs widening ledge. I do not plan on modifying the wood.

Lounge Primate - Posted - 12/04/2024:  10:23:31

quote:

---

Originally posted by tomkatb

......The wife has drawn a line on new guitars however. 6 is the line for her. Unreasonable. I can afford one more.

---

The trick is to have so many that she can't keep them straight, with no idea that an addition might have snuck in there. Six is a good place to start;-)

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/04/2024:  10:57:25

She probably can’t distinguish one reso from another.

Tom Jr. - Posted - 12/04/2024:  12:04:01

The wife has drawn a line on new guitars however. 6 is the line for her. Unreasonable.

Instruments are like planting shrubbery.  You are supposed to have an uneven number for aesthetics.  You really have to get one more.... or three more.

gadobro - Posted - 12/05/2024:  08:16:57

I would try trimming the cone but I'm nowhere near the Beard shop. I do think the maple/ebony inserts are an easy improvement (and assuming there's room you can raise the string height under the palm rest at the same time). Bass response is a tough ask on a slim bodied Dobro like the old ones. Fortunately I've never cared too much about bass in a reso. I could even probably lose the 6th string without noticing too much.

gadobro - Posted - 12/05/2024:  08:23:47

I called the only reso luthier I was aware of around here (he since moved out of state) a few years ago about routing the cone shelf on old guitars to accept a larger cone, and he told me to ditch the old Dobro and just buy a Gold Tone. I was thinking, thanks but not what I asked . . .

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/05/2024:  08:33:40

I ordered the Legend cone looking forward to the outcome. Btw Mike Replogle recommended me sanding the cone vs cutting when we discussed cone sizing for an OMI

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/05/2024:  08:34:16

Also orders maple ebony saddles

tomkatb - Posted - 12/05/2024:  08:49:22

My smaller thinner Regal sounds good on the upper strings. (Travel guitar).

Lately I have been really concentrating on using all of the strings. My much bigger Harlows have dramatically better bass. “Size seems to matter”. Kind of lost interest in the smaller guitar.

They are post models. The regal is not.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 12/10/2024:  12:49:26

quote:

---

Originally posted by gadobro

Bass response is a tough ask on a slim bodied Dobro like the old ones. Fortunately I've never cared too much about bass in a reso. I could even probably lose the 6th string without noticing too much.

---

You could remove the 6th string like Keith Richards does for Open G tuning on his Telecasters. 

Right  - the old Dobros were often weak in the bass department and since these were the guitars I played  for many years I recall that I had a tendency to avoid the low G string in particular.

I don't remember where I heard it from Rob Ickes, it could have been an interview or at one of his workshops, he made similar comments regarding his early years on the instrument prior to getting his first Scheerhorn around 1990-91. 

Once he began playing guitars with some serious bass on the 6th string it changed his approach to the instrument. He really started using the 5th and 6th strings a whole lot more. 

Once I got my hands on a large body guitar with some strong bass I began to follow suit after many hours of listening to Rob. I would say more than any other player - even Jerry - Rob was the guy who really started utilizing the low bass strings more than anyone else. 

But you need to have the right tool for the job. 

Edited by - MarkinSonoma on 12/10/2024 12:50:55

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/10/2024:  13:08:23

Thanks. TBH Josh and Mike hit those low strings and they had that dead sound often but that was part of the signature sound of the dobro then. I'll report after I resize and drop in the Legend and ebony.  

Edited by - MartyBluesman on 12/10/2024 13:18:11

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/11/2024:  21:36:47

OK, I sanded the legend Cohen it now fits, but my saddles are sitting way too high and touching the top of the armrest of the cover plate. I it looks to me like the lip that the spider bridge sits on on the legend is taller than the original Dobre cone. So I’m thinking to myself. Do I trim the saddles and make them lower so that they don’t hit the top of the cover plate or do I try to bend the spider bridge which I really am not crazy about.

MarkinSonoma - Posted - 12/12/2024:  05:56:12

I should have remembered to point that out about the Legend cone. Yes,  lip that the spider legs rest on is a little higher than other cones. Mike Witcher pointed that out to me a number of years ago  after he went with a Schoonover modular spider with the Kent Schoonover version of  the Fishman Nashville pickup inserts which I have in my main guitar. I had to take careful measurements for Kent so that I would have sufficient clearance under the palm rest for a Legend cone. 

So the  answer is yes - you have to trim the saddles so they will fit under the palm rest. 

I've never heard of anyone bending the spider bridge - it strikes me as being a really bad idea. If anyone has successfully done it, we'd sure like to hear about it. 

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/12/2024:  06:28:24

Thanks Mark! I do have an extra newer Epi cover plate that’s taller than the old OMI. May look at that if the current situation forces my saddles to trim too low.

hlpdobro - Posted - 12/12/2024:  06:53:41

The inserts are BLANKS and need to be sanded (the bottom) to fit your individual guitar. They all come with excess material. DO NOT screw around with the spider.



Also the final adjustments and fitment are done with the guitar tuned AT TENSION with the coverplate loosely attached. That's the correct way to judge the distance under the PALM REST.

h

Edited by - hlpdobro on 12/12/2024 06:55:56

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/12/2024:  06:59:25

Great points. I’ve already cut and sanded the inserts and will continue sanding as needed. Thanks, Howard!

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/12/2024:  17:05:57

Ok Beard Legend cone and ebony saddles installed with original spider. Also put rubber tubing under tail per Howard’s video. The legend lip lifted the bridge so I had to sand saddles significantly. I find a great solution to resize cone using a sanding flap wheel on my electric drill (got drill stationary first and then slowly rotated cone). Ok results: louder and brighter, but definitely lost some old dobro midrange honk. I think it will cut through better now. Fat strings much more resonant now. Have to play for a while and see how I feel about it. Wondering if I should go back to birch to be a little less bright ? Thanks for all the help guys!

docslyd - Posted - 12/12/2024:  20:50:04

I feel that the maple-only bridge blanks are a little more "even-tempered" or less bright than the ebony-capped saddles and I like them on my pre-war guitars. I'm not aware of birch bridge blanks...but I may just be unaware. I have heard of people making them out of boxwood because supposedly that was the material on the bridges in the old Dobros....but I'm have no solid knowledge on that. Meanwhile, make sure that your sanding of the cone edge didn't cause any warping of the cone. It should be absolutely flat and you can check it by laying it "face-down" on a true-flat surface. As mentioned, don't mess with the spider other than to be sure the legs are perfectly level with each other and set the bridge as high as you can get it so that the strings only clear the palmrest when turned up to pitch.

MartyBluesman - Posted - 12/13/2024:  05:45:36

May try maple on high strings and ebony on low to get some more sweetness on the highs.



I did check cone it its flat and sat perfectly on the ledge. Old bridge sat flat on it. I was concerned sissors would warp cone edge so I sanded.

question on Nut. The OMI does not seem to have a groove where the nut is inserted. It just appears to be sitting flush on the fretboard. What holds it firmly in place? Glue?

Edited by - MartyBluesman on 12/13/2024 05:49:00

docslyd - Posted - 12/13/2024:  14:23:02

...generally string tension, but I always put a drop of wood glue there so it doesn't fall off if I remove all the strings to set up the guitar again.