Jepe - Posted - 12/04/2008:  10:44:55

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Hello.

I'm thinking about changing the biscuitcone in a Dobro for a spidercone. On the net I found the Beard, the Quarterman, and the spidercone from National Resophonic (offered in 10 1/2 inch with a spiderbridge). What's your opinion about these (or other) brands? By the way, my Dobro is a brass roundneck and I would like to use it to play fingerpicking songs, not slide.

Regards, John.

Dukasyo - Posted - 12/05/2008:  08:27:28

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I put a Beard cone in an Epiphone squareneck biscuit. I also put in a new biscuit with a maple/ebony insert. They improved the quality of the tone considerably, nice bluesy, old-timey sound. And loud. I wouldn't change out the biscuit on your brass body. Do some improvements and I think you'll like it real well. I haven't tried it myself, but I've read claims that an Allen tailpiece can improve tone and volume also. Good luck!

Mike D.

Jepe - Posted - 12/06/2008:  03:53:04

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dukasyo

I put a Beard cone in an Epiphone squareneck biscuit. I also put in a new biscuit with a maple/ebony insert. They improved the quality of the tone considerably, nice bluesy, old-timey sound. And loud. I wouldn't change out the biscuit on your brass body. Do some improvements and I think you'll like it real well. I haven't tried it myself, but I've read claims that an Allen tailpiece can improve tone and volume also. Good luck!

Mike D.

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Hello.

Why wouldn't you cange from biscuit to spider? My thoughts on this: I bought the guitar because I wanted a "real Dobro" just for the fun of it. My plan was to use it for regular fingerpicking songs, not (much) slide. And I already found out that I like the spidersound better for fingerpicking songs than the biscuitsound. It's hard to describe, but I think the sound of a spider is "richer", when played with fingernails (so, no picks) while a biscuit in my ears only delivers the six tones from the six strings, and that's it (I know it reads weird, but these matters are hard to catch in words). By the way, I own a steel National Delphi which I use for slide in G and D, and the Dobro as it is now cannot compare to it. The Dobro does have a maple bridgewood with an ebony insert for the four wound strings, and the sound as such is not bad at all, but compared to the Delphi... Anyway, hope you will post your thoughts on this matter.

Regards, John.

Dukasyo - Posted - 12/08/2008:  08:15:18

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Hello John in the low country,
You are right about a couple of things; first, a lot of our perception of tone is personal (it just sounds better to you), second, indeed, the biscuits generally don't have as much sustain as the spiders. However, I think the biscuits have more punch. For a small guitar (shallow body, short scale) mine is really loud with a great blues sound. What kind of nut do you have? Mine has a bone nut. You say you are finger picking sans picks. Are you fretting with fingers of are you bottle-necking it? I don't know, I still think you'd be better off upgrading the cone.You have some serious internal changes to do in order to switch over (its hardly a straight swap!) and if you don't get it right you might still be dissatified (or worse). If a new cone won't give you the sound you want then I would sell or trade before I hacked it up. But then, maybe you are a resochanical whiz. Me, I've got whole automobiles on my scrap pile!
Good luck!

Mike D.

Jepe - Posted - 12/08/2008:  10:51:53

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Hello.

Here's a reaction to your questions and remarks. First, about the differences in the sound. I agree with you, but because I do have a National spider and a National biscuit, both types of sound are well covered, I mean, I know the sustain of the spider, and the punch of the biscuit, specialy when the latter is in a a steel body (and the new hotrod cone of NRP). Like I said, I just bought the Dobro, well, because it's a Dobro, but I would like it to be a spider (and they are seldom offered in my neighbourhood, so that's why I decided to buy the first reasonable one, biscuit or spider).
About the nut: I did not have the time to check the guitar properly, but I think the nut is bone, it doesn't have that shiny surface of a plastic one, but like I said, I just looked for a moment.
About the way I play: when I practice slide I use fingerpicks (and a slide (a Rockslide) of course) but I use the Delphi for that. The Dobro is intended for some fingerpickingsongs, played with nails only. My National spider gives a warm rich sound played that way, it would be nice if the Dobro would do about the same.
About the cone-switch: you say it will take "some serious internal changes", could you tell me a little more about it? As far as I know (but I gathered this knowledge concerning the DM-33) the biggest thing is the neckstick; it should have a "scalope" at the point where the cone sits, because the spidercone will reach deeper into the body. A guy on the internet, who had been working in a musicshop once told me that at the time the Dobro DM33 could be ordered with either a biscuit or a spider at no extra costs, and I have indeed seen both types through the years. Like I said, all I know is the recess in the neckstick that is crucial, but maybe you can tell me more. I once saw a few pictures of a guy from Denmark who had opened his DM33, and it showed the scaloped neckstick, and he too had both a biscuit and a spider in his guitar (although not at the same time :-).
And, about your last remark: I also think that it might be better to leave the guitar like it is, and trade it when a spider Dobro passes by, I don't know yet. Because, on the other hand, it would be nice if you have a nice sounding guitar that you "made yourself", at least, a part of it. Time will tell.

Regards, John.

Dukasyo - Posted - 12/10/2008:  11:25:23

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Truth is, I'm not sure what is inside of a metal body. How is the ring that holds the cone attached? What is the diameter? I thought those biscuits were all nine and a half inches and the spiders were ten and a half. Can you even get a spider that will fit? Is it at the correct level to accept a spider? Well, anyway, part of the fun of having a dobro is taking them apart and tweaking them! There are probably other ways of changing the sound too. Perhaps your friendly, local luthier might have some ideas.

Mike D.

Jepe - Posted - 12/11/2008:  11:21:23

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dukasyo I thought those biscuits were all nine and a half inches and the spiders were ten and a half. Can you even get a spider that will fit?

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As far as I know the 9,5 and 10,5 dimensions are not locked to biscuits or spiders. For example, both the biscuit and spider of National are 9,5 inch, but the biscuit of a Dobro DM33 or DM75 is 10,5 inch, while the Dobro Duolian's biscuit is 9,5 inch.
On the other hand, National offers a 10,5 inch spidercone at their parts-shop, while Beard offers the 10,5 inch cone in two sizes; the one for Asian instruments is a real 10,5 inch, the one for OMI's is slightly smaller, but still called 10,5 inch. Still there ?
Anyway, we'll see.

Regards, John.

Beard Guitars - Posted - 12/11/2008:  12:36:36

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Our BC-1 is 10 9/16.

The only other spider cone that we have is our p/n IRC-145 which are seconds and are the cones we pull out of customer imports that we setup....and replace them with BC-1's.

You can check our website at tinyurl.com/6afkdg for all the spider/biscuit cones we offer.

Cheers

h

Howard Parker
Beard Guitars, LLC
howard@beardguitars.com
301-733-8271

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Edited by - Beard Guitars on 12/11/2008 12:59:06