epi_lon - Posted - 06/11/2009:  06:17:19

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Hey all,
I’ve been playing a Republic biscuit resonator for the past few months now. It’s my first resonator guitar. I bought it used, and I like the look and sound of it. However, I played out with some friends of mine last night and learned (the hardway) that the intonation on the guitar is off – it tends to be sharp, especially at the third fret.
Obviously, this isn’t as much of a problem if I’m just playing slide by myself – I can just stay bellow the fret. But if I’m playing with others or playing without a slide I have a problem.
I know that “perfect” intonation is hard to come by, but can anyone give me some advice about fixing this problem. I don’t really know where to begin or what to adjust on this guitar.
My other guitar is a Highway One Strat. This reso is a whole ‘nother world to me, and I don’t really know its ins and outs yet.
Thanks for any and all advice.

Square Neck - Posted - 06/11/2009:  14:37:13

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Is it off on all strings or just one? Is it off one one side more then the other?

First change your strings......I know it sounds like BS but you would not believe how much old strings can cause intonation issues. I thought the same thing about one of my guitars. I was like WTF this guitar was built wrong, then I changed my strings and all was well.

If that does not help you might need to loosen your strings and turn your biscuit a few degrees one way or the other.

Good luck!!

Dan Brooks - Posted - 06/11/2009:  15:55:44

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epi-lon,

Take a very accurate measurement from the front (fretboard) edge of your nut down to the 12th fret. This measurement should be exactly the same as from the 12th fret to your bridge...and be sure to take the msmt. at all 6 strings. Just in case your cone got spun around somehow. Worth a shot.

Dan Brooks
B & B Resophonic Guitars
therarelyherd.com/documents/27...tion=show

epi_lon - Posted - 06/11/2009:  16:01:14

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The strings are brand new (like 5 days old). Though I did have a very difficult time replacing them. I'm not used to the tailpiece, the bridge and the classical style guitar head/tuners, so maybe I jostled the cone/bridge a bit.
It's sharp on all stings, but some strings are more sharp than others and some frets are more sharp than others.
I'll check the bridge and take the measurements.
Thank you both for your advice.

epi_lon - Posted - 06/11/2009:  17:09:12

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Their sharper on the lower pitch strings if that makes a difference...

Mbradford6288 - Posted - 06/11/2009:  17:50:48

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you may want to take it to a local luthier. This is a fixable issue, but if you really want it dead on then a strobe tuner and a practiced hand are a good thing.

YMMV
Matt

Dan Brooks - Posted - 06/11/2009:  17:59:58

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Epi,

That would indicate that at least the treble side of the saddle/cone is twisted too far towards the nut.

Dan Brooks
B & B Resophonic Guitars
therarelyherd.com/documents/27...tion=show

Doughbro - Posted - 06/15/2009:  07:54:31

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>>>Their sharper on the lower pitch strings if that makes a difference...

Dan, are you sure about your advise? To me, this indicates just the opposite.

epi, loosen your strings and the tension screw. Rotate your bridge ccw slightly and retighten both E strings to check the intonation at the 12th fret. You should be able to tinker with it and find a position that would improve your intonation. Good Luck

Dan Brooks - Posted - 06/17/2009:  03:38:07

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I misread his post. I somehow read it as the higher side. Oops.

If the bridge is to far toward the nut on a side and you note a string, the string is (in effect) shorter than it should be and therefore the note higher or sharper. If too far away from the nut, the string is effectively longer and the note will be flat.


Dan Brooks
B & B Resophonic Guitars
therarelyherd.com/documents/27...tion=show

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Edited by - Dan Brooks on 06/17/2009 03:41:42

fibrebundle - Posted - 06/17/2009:  05:59:19

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I have a Republic Single cone (apart from a tricone as well), and I too had intonation issues. These can, to an extent, be corrected by slightly rotating the cone/bridge combination. You need to see if at the first string, the twelfth fret note is flat relative to the twelfth fret harmonic. If yes, then you need to move the cone slightly so that the distance between the bridge and the nut increases towards the first string (and vice-versa, if the fretted not is sharp). The cone is free to move around a little bit (after the strings are slackened), by about a fourth of an inch. You may need to repeat this exercise, till you get the best balance between the first to fifth strings. The intonation on the sixth string, unfortunately will never be good (as Frank, the owner of Republic guitars, says). The intonation on these guitars cannot be as good as intonation on a flattop acoustic. This primarily has to do with the biscuit bridge/saddle, and the higher than usual action. Eventually, in my case, the intonation between the first and fifth strings is alright within 5 cents, but the intonation on the sixth string is off by about 10 cents. Further, even on a regular flattop acoustic, as you would know, you can never get perfect intonation, even theoretically (the 'well-tempered' scale, etc.).

epi_lon - Posted - 06/17/2009:  06:02:43

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Hey everyone,

Thanks very much for the advice. I've been busy and have only tinkered with the guitar a bit last night. You're right about the bridge. I fiddled with it a bit and the intonation is now closer to what it should be. I hope that this weekend I'll have some time to sit down and really figure it out.

I hadn't expected there to be any play in the bridge. Thanks for pointing this out for me.
Is there a way that I can fix the bridge in place once I have it to where I want it? or, is this something that I'll need to pay attention to?

Thanks again everyone!

epi_lon - Posted - 06/17/2009:  06:08:35

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fibrebundle,

thanks for the info on republics. I didn't know that. I know that "perfect" intonation is like questing for the holy grail. I just want it close so that when I play with some of my friends (who are damn good) they won't keep giving me this sym/pathetic look.

It's interesting that the sixth string should be so far off. How do you compensate for that in your playing?

Thanks

Doughbro - Posted - 06/17/2009:  13:45:19

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>>>epi asked: Is there a way that I can fix the bridge in place once I have it to where I want it?

When you get it right, use a pencil to make witness marks on the differnt parts so that you can match them up, when needed. This is easier if you remove the cover first, and then you'll have more freedom to rotate, measure, and mark the bridge.

The pic below shows how I handle the 6th string intonation, at the nut. Before the fix, with the E string tuned open on this old Harmony, it would be sharp enough to sound sour, at the G position (3rd fret). The little piece of bone shortened the length of the E string, and took care of it.

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Edited by - Doughbro on 06/17/2009 16:55:49

Mbradford6288 - Posted - 06/17/2009:  16:52:14

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You can do something similar on the bridge. I add a piece of ebony to the rear of the saddle and then intonate the saddle.

YMMV

Matt

fibrebundle - Posted - 06/17/2009:  21:48:10

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doughbro

>>>epi asked: Is there a way that I can fix the bridge in place once I have it to where I want it?

When you get it right, use a pencil to make witness marks on the differnt parts so that you can match them up, when needed. This is easier if you remove the cover first, and then you'll have more freedom to rotate, measure, and mark the bridge.

The pic below shows how I handle the 6th string intonation, at the nut. Before the fix, with the E string tuned open on this old Harmony, it would be sharp enough to sound sour, at the G position (3rd fret). The little piece of bone shortened the length of the E string, and took care of it.

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This is an interesting fix! I usually do not bother too much about the 6th string intonation, as I do not fret it often. However,
this trick is worth trying, in my opinion. Just one thing: Have you glued the bone piece, or is it held down by the string tension?

Doughbro - Posted - 06/18/2009:  04:21:53

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quote:

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This is an interesting fix! I usually do not bother too much about the 6th string intonation, as I do not fret it often. However,
this trick is worth trying, in my opinion. Just one thing: Have you glued the bone piece, or is it held down by the string tension?

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A drop of super glue will do. After you install the piece of bone, make sure that you hold your file level, so that the new groove will be the same height as the existing groove.