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Mar 22, 2023 - 9:46:53 PM
424 posts since 9/9/2016

I will probably be using all the wrong terminology . And probably showing massive ignorance that I should already know this . But whenever I asked , either I couldn't communicate it , or it's inherently incomprehensible .


I first saw this on a Troy B video , but recently saw similar multiple places on a google search . IIRC , Troy called it an X Pattern .

Visualize starting at D Fret .

String 6 at Fret

Drop back 2 on string 6

Move foreward 1 fret ( net of 1 back) on string 5

Move foreward 1 fret ( net starting fret ) on string 4

Drop back 2 frets on string 4 . Ending up actually being a C note , if the D Fret was starting reference .

Soooo , my confusion now :

If I'm ( doing fill stuff ) following the Chord Progression , where should I be starting/ ending ? Should I be clued by where I start on string 6 , or where I finish on string 4 ? Or does it depend , if so what factors ?

To rephrase to illiustrate :

If I'm playing on top of a particular chord , am I starting there or finishing there ?

I.e. - Should I start out 2 ahead on String 6 , then drop back 2 to reference Fret do rest of pattern , and finish back on reference fret , with an actual D ?

Mar 23, 2023 - 7:01:38 AM

110 posts since 3/20/2015

You just described a pentatonic scale pattern. It could be considered F major pentatonic or a D minor pentatonic. The root notes are at the sixth fret on the fifth and second strings for the F major and at the seventh fret on the sixth and third string for the D minor. So it kind of depends on what's happening in the song. Are you playing over an F major or D minor chord? And let your ear be your guide. If it sounds good, then it's correct smiley

Edited by - mesmithut on 03/23/2023 07:02:35

Mar 23, 2023 - 7:06:37 AM
likes this

586 posts since 11/28/2012

This “x pattern” is a moveable blues lick.

1-b7-b3-5-4

Although there are no rules, generally it sounds good/solid when you anticipate a chord change, and land on the root note of that new chord at the point of transition.

So, say, if you’re starting at G chord in Key of G, and moving to the IV chord (C), land on the C note (the last note in your lick) at the chord transition. It is a “strong” move, although it would get pretty boring…quickly…if you did this repetitively.

IMO learning moveable lick patterns, and copping licks in general, can be good stuff…but I wouldn’t be force fitting anything into a formula. Instead, get comfortable with the patterns and various licks, and use your ears to emphasize certain notes based on what the chord changes are doing.

But emphasizing root notes as a landing zone for the new chord in a chord progression is a pretty safe starting point.

Mar 23, 2023 - 7:13:09 AM

586 posts since 11/28/2012

Oh were you numbering the strings as #6 being the top (treble) string? I assumed you were using string #6 to mean the bottom bass string.

Mar 23, 2023 - 11:37:14 AM

4654 posts since 7/27/2008

A number of years ago I was at a Mike Witcher workshop in the Bay Area and he went through the X pattern business. I have the worksheets around here somewhere and if and when I find them I will share them here - but off the top of my head I don't know where they would be at this time.

Biggfoot, you know it would help a whole lot if you provided a link to Troy's video where you found this. I just sent his website and took a stab at locating it, but in the one video I found where he mentioned it, the pattern started in the key of C, and Troy said that he has gone through the topic in a number of his videos. 

Mar 23, 2023 - 7:49:29 PM

4654 posts since 7/27/2008

Sorry, in  the final paragraph I meant to write "I just went to his website," but didn't notice the error until it was  too late to edit. 

Mar 23, 2023 - 8:46:14 PM

424 posts since 9/9/2016

Of course I can't recall the title :) , but it did stick in my mind .

Yes , I had a brain fart and reversed the string numbers .

So , if I am absorbing :

1. If it sounds good , it is good .

2. If I have opportunity to overthink it , and quick enough to do it on purpose , the ending note of the pattern ended on desired root is most best , and ideally for a downwards transition .


For better or worse , probably 80% of my licks and fills are spontaneous as I go .

**************

In a perfect world . I'd have a library of Troy DVDs or even VHS 's .

But I'm too computer illiterate , and don't have hi speed 'net at home available , so streaming or download doesn't do it for me . I did once upon a time buy some downloads . But seeing to projected download time on they pay by minute computer , I shook my head and let it go .

Mar 24, 2023 - 4:37:23 AM

586 posts since 11/28/2012

quote:
Originally posted by Biggfoot44

Of course I can't recall the title :) , but it did stick in my mind .

Yes , I had a brain fart and reversed the string numbers .

So , if I am absorbing :

1. If it sounds good , it is good .

2. If I have opportunity to overthink it , and quick enough to do it on purpose , the ending note of the pattern ended on desired root is most best , and ideally for a downwards transition .


For better or worse , probably 80% of my licks and fills are spontaneous as I go .

**************

In a perfect world . I'd have a library of Troy DVDs or even VHS 's .

But I'm too computer illiterate , and don't have hi speed 'net at home available , so streaming or download doesn't do it for me . I did once upon a time buy some downloads . But seeing to projected download time on they pay by minute computer , I shook my head and let it go .


On your point #2...what I was suggesting in my earlier reply is to anticipate the upcoming chord transition, and manage your lick sequence/timing such that you land on the root note of that new chord at the point of transition.  It doesn't particularly matter if you approach it from an upward or downward direction....that's a matter of taste.  

This is obviously not the only approach to dealing with licks/chord combos, but it is a simple way that sounds pleasing, and it lends purpose to your licks.  As you're developing your "ear" for this stuff, you can be cuter and fancier.

Also, I find it can help to have fretboard diagrams (scale steps and/or notes) so you can visualize licks and understand what chords they may work with.  Here's one such "decoder ring" I made up.


Mar 24, 2023 - 4:44:59 AM

586 posts since 11/28/2012

quote:
Originally posted by MarkinSonoma

A number of years ago I was at a Mike Witcher workshop in the Bay Area and he went through the X pattern business. I have the worksheets around here somewhere and if and when I find them I will share them here - but off the top of my head I don't know where they would be at this time.

Biggfoot, you know it would help a whole lot if you provided a link to Troy's video where you found this. I just sent his website and took a stab at locating it, but in the one video I found where he mentioned it, the pattern started in the key of C, and Troy said that he has gone through the topic in a number of his videos. 


Sometimes when demonstrating "closed" (aka, "moveable" or "floating") lick patterns, the instructors will pick the fifth fret (C) for the sole reason that it is easier to demonstrate at that position, than, say, a 12th fret G, where things can get wonkier due to fret spacing and intonation.

I have instructional videos for both Troy and Rob in which they do this.  In all cases they make a point to emphasize that the licks are transferable to any fret position / key.

Mar 24, 2023 - 7:17:01 PM

4654 posts since 7/27/2008

I think a lot of teachers use the key of C because there  are no sharps or flats, and for newer musicians it's easier to wrap their head around it. 

Mar 25, 2023 - 4:12:27 AM

586 posts since 11/28/2012

quote:
Originally posted by MarkinSonoma

I think a lot of teachers use the key of C because there  are no sharps or flats, and for newer musicians it's easier to wrap their head around it. 


Yeah, I'd agree with that.

Edited by - JC Dobro on 03/25/2023 04:12:50

Apr 16, 2023 - 6:44:03 PM

424 posts since 9/9/2016

Thanks JC !

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