For most, the reverse slant is accomplished by keeping the same grip on the bar but angling your wrist to the desired position.

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Originally posted by jacknj

For most, the reverse slant is accomplished by keeping the same grip on the bar but angling your wrist to the desired position.

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I pivot the bar (alter grip) instead.  My wrist won't flex that much, especially on reverse slants on adjacent strings high up the neck.  I hear you though...I see Uncle Josh did as you say.

Hey Jamie,

I used an SP2 for years, then decided to shed some bar weight and went to a Tipton #2 bar. I’m thinking this Tipton bar is very similar in profile, size and weight to a Scheerhorn bar.

I had to force myself to stick with it, but after several weeks I no longer dropped it and enjoyed the decreased size and weight. The tone wasn’t too different as the Tipton is a chromed bar, and my old SP2 was also chrome. Maybe the SP2 are stainless now? Not sure.

Anyway, my point is that I had concern about slants with the shorter bar and I was able to do them both ways without issue. And didn’t have to double check the bar orientation like with the SP. Just took a while to get used to.

Fortunately my old Guernsey gal had lots of dents in the top already.

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Originally posted by BrianMac

Hey Jamie,

I used an SP2 for years, then decided to shed some bar weight and went to a Tipton #2 bar. I’m thinking this Tipton bar is very similar in profile, size and weight to a Scheerhorn bar.

I had to force myself to stick with it, but after several weeks I no longer dropped it and enjoyed the decreased size and weight. The tone wasn’t too different as the Tipton is a chromed bar, and my old SP2 was also chrome. Maybe the SP2 are stainless now? Not sure.

Anyway, my point is that I had concern about slants with the shorter bar and I was able to do them both ways without issue. And didn’t have to double check the bar orientation like with the SP. Just took a while to get used to.

Fortunately my old Guernsey gal had lots of dents in the top already.

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Thanks Brian.  Yeah, I've been working with the Scheerhorn bar and starting to get it dialed in.  For pull-offs in particular, it excels.  Odd thing...the sharp edges up the sides of the bar cause some discomfort on my middle finger.  I sort of roll my middle finger over the edge, instead of keeping it 100% in that groove slot...so I actually get these creases on the side/underside of my middle finger.  Never realized I did that, as the SP2 isn't as sharp up the sides, so no discomfort.

Some minor grip adjustments and I should be good to go!  Great bar.

I applied some CatTongue non-abrasive grip tape to the Scheerhorn stainless steel bar. Easy and cheap way to improve the grip. Advertised as a non-messy removal, should I wish to do that. Actually I could solve my reverse slant pivot anchor problem by applying more to the bridge of the nose and butt end...but haven't gone that far yet...lol.

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Originally posted by jacknj

For most, the reverse slant is accomplished by keeping the same grip on the bar but angling your wrist to the desired position.

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Interesting that you say that. Can you post any videos where that occurs? All the reverse slants I've seen in person and on video have all shifted the grip and held the bar in the thumb and middle finger.

Dane, if memory serves, I believe you saw Rob Ickes and Jim Hurst do this song in person in Sebastopol 11-12 years ago. The Dire Straits ballad "Why Worry." The version in this video is from somewhere back east. My brother saw them a couple nights prior to Sebastopol near Santa Cruz and he told me the following day that they performed this song - we are both huge fans of Mark Knopfler.

We had an afternoon workshop before the show with Rob, and  you may recall I asked him to give us a demo of what he did for part of this song and it included some reverse slants. Unfortunately difficult to see in the cellphone video below, but you can hear it. 

For any fellow members of Rob's Reso Room he goes into detail on reverse slants using a Scheerhorn bar in a couple of videos, and he says that this method of angling your wrist is pretty much all he uses. But since it is on his Reso Room site I can't share the videos. He shows the "thumb push" method as well but again, he does the wrist twist version pretty much all the time. He also shows trying to get back to square one with the thumb push method with a Scheerhorn bar, and unlike a bullet bar with a slightly concave surface on the back, it doesn't go nearly as well as the reverse wrist method. 

I think one thing that really helps with this reverse wrist method is to tuck your elbow tight to your side. And also to slightly push the neck of the guitar away from you - I don't really consciously do that but I have seen a couple players do that over the years. I think the elbow tight to your side is the main technique here. 

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Originally posted by MarkinSonoma

Dane, if memory serves, I believe you saw Rob Ickes and Jim Hurst do this song in person in Sebastopol 11-12 years ago. 

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No, I went to his workshop but couldn't make it to the show. It's where I bought the Scheerhorn bar that I figured out pretty quick didn't fit my hands.

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Originally posted by MarkinSonoma

I think one thing that really helps with this reverse wrist method is to tuck your elbow tight to your side. And also to slightly push the neck of the guitar away from you - I don't really consciously do that but I have seen a couple players do that over the years. I think the elbow tight to your side is the main technique here. 

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I'll give that a try, but it's based on several things including wrist flexibility and range. Rob has monkey hands & fingers, so it's relatively easy for him. I imagine I could manage it within the 5 lowest frets. Mike Witcher uses the grip shift method, and I've never seen him use the reverse wrist method.

Okay, Dane - now it came back to me that you couldn't stick around for that evening's performance. I'm trying to remember if David Grisman showed up for that one. Since I moved to Sonoma County in 1997 I have seen Dawg show up at performances to sit in at least 15 times. This is back when he was still living in Petaluma. Several years ago he moved up to Port Townsend, Washington where incidentally my younger brother and his wife have lived for the past nine or ten years. So we don't get to see Grisman show up  around here anymore with his Calton case containing his legendary Gibson Lloyd Loar made mandolin known as "Crusher."

Right - Rob has big hands and long fingers - sort of a dobro playing version of Jimi Hendrix. I'm not a huge slant guy, but if it works for ones bar hand, it is definitely easier to perform reverse slants with the wrist twist method on  a Scheerhorn bar or something similar than doing the thumb pivot method. That takes a lot of practice - a pretty serious commitment. 

I bought a thermoplastic polymer coated bullet bar from Todd Clinesmith awhile back - best one I have ever owned. I wanted it specifically for 8 string lap steel in a tuning like C6. The slightly concave back makes those thumb pivots easier, and the material makes it easier to hang onto than the typical steel surface bullet bar.

And here is some cool news - Todd told me he is working on some "rail" type dobro bars. He had prototypes going a few years ago but lost them in the tragic fire at his place in the southern Oregon mountains in 2020 that destroyed his beautiful workshop (which has been rebuilt). I need to get a hold of him to check on the progress. 

Here’s a recent view of Rob doing a reverse slant. (Go to 5:47 in the link if you want to see the motion video).  Agree he's using a wrist twist, though you can see his thumb does seem to do some minor adjustment to accommodate the twist.

https://youtu.be/o3sjeT--eeU

In general when I watch him play, I notice his bar hand at times working almost like windshield wipers, with his wrist hinging and his long fingers sort of wiping back and forth.  Not just during slants, but during vibrato, and also (I believe) to enhance the "slide into the note" effect.

In any event, I think this is a Scheerhorn bar, but can't be sure of it.

I can make this reverse slant technique work close to the nut end of the fret board, but not above the twelfth, and certainly not on adjacent strings.

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Originally posted by Oboe Cadobro

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Originally posted by jacknj

For most, the reverse slant is accomplished by keeping the same grip on the bar but angling your wrist to the desired position.

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Interesting that you say that. Can you post any videos where that occurs? All the reverse slants I've seen in person and on video have all shifted the grip and held the bar in the thumb and middle finger.

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Josh Graves did it that way. This video around 6:10: https://youtu.be/_xB5b8700Gw?t=370

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Originally posted by gadobro

 

Josh Graves did it that way. This video around 6:10: https://youtu.be/_xB5b8700Gw?t=370

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Very cool, thanks for posting that.