Is the quality of the merged sound of the two systems that much different and worth the effort? Is it that much more noticeable vs. just using different mic images on the JD pedal and messing with the blend?

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Originally posted by Lounge Primate

Is the quality of the merged sound of the two systems that much different and worth the effort? Is it that much more noticeable vs. just using different mic images on the JD pedal and messing with the blend?

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I think so.  I just like mic'd sound better.  IMO it allows for dynamics and nuances that pickups don't offer - even the great Nashville/JD Aura combo.

Personally, my order of preference is 1) pure acoustic (did a small wine bar this way...awesome), 2)  mic'd instrument, 3) blended mic and pickup, 4) pure pickup.

Honestly it's a pretty quick setup.  I use wireless for the JD Aura/pickup (just plug in the transmitter and receiver), and clipping on the mic and plugging in XLR is a couple minute process.  Blending the signals is literally dialing up/down the 2 knobs on the pedal, to taste.

All that said, if it's a very noisy bar and a glass/brick reverb chamber, I'll save myself the hassle and just go pickup/JD Aura, and not bother with the mic.  Sometimes you walk into a place and you just KNOW a mic ain't gonna' work.  In which case the JD Aura/pickup gets the job done just fine.

Thanks for the explanation Jamie.

I’ve probably sacrificed some pure dobro tone for the Fishman set up. It’s so good as far as convenience, for any venue, and for the re-creation of dobro sound (however the magic works in that JD foot pedal), that I’d be hard-pressed to go back to a mic.

I play with a mic for blues harp, maybe I’ll experiment with bending the arm down to the guitar and see how it fills the room.

Love to hear the A/B of your system some time.

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Originally posted by Lounge Primate

I’ve probably sacrificed some pure dobro tone for the Fishman set up. It’s so good as far as convenience, for any venue, and for the re-creation of dobro sound (however the magic works in that JD foot pedal), that I’d be hard-pressed to go back to a mic.

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I've done the same for many years, and you're right, the JD Aura/ Fishman always delivers.  My biggest nitpick is string volume imbalance and sustain "oddities" with a pickup, that don't appear with a mic.  (I've done experiments by recording separately split pickup/mic signals to confirm this.)

Anyhow, I'm greedy lol, and this adds minimal incremental effort (IMO) to blend in mic tone, up to 100% if circumstances allow.

Nice setup, I would love to hear it! That mic placement would be a complete non starter for me. I once used a fishman blender system on my mandolin and loved the sound and control but the clip on mic was an annoyance.

I also use the MXR Carbon Copy Delay in my setup and just love it!

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Originally posted by resowilli

Nice setup, I would love to hear it! That mic placement would be a complete non starter for me. I once used a fishman blender system on my mandolin and loved the sound and control but the clip on mic was an annoyance.

I also use the MXR Carbon Copy Delay in my setup and just love it!

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The gooseneck can be bent any way the player wishes, so instead of the "fish hook" shape here, one can do more of a "reverse C" and position the mic capsule more toward the center or bridge end of the cover plate (and out of the line of fire).  I haven't settled on a preferred orientation quite yet.  

If I get some time I'll post a comparison of the pickup vs. mic vs. blended signal.  I only have a little acoustic amp handy, so not sure of the quality of the home sound sample yet...

Yeah, I love the MXR delay.  I use it sparingly, but it adds nice depth.

I've been using the AT Pro 35 and gooseneck for a while on both dobro and tricone. Nice clear sound, you can locate and bend the gooseneck wherever you like, and I have yet to encounter feedback issues. The lil' box it goes into has an XLR out, so easy to go right into the board.

Here's a quick-and-dirty A/B/C sound comparison of 100% ATM350 Mic, 100% Nashville Pickup_ Aura, and 50%/50% blend Mic/Pickup.

https://youtu.be/VvTuEHBc0lY?si=lOZbcHr7mj4anBMS

Frankly, with a 50/50 blend, the piezo pickup quack still dominates over the Mic, so in reality I'd likely start 100% Mic, then dial in the pickup just enough to achieve better sound "body" and gain-before-feedback. I don't hear enough difference between 100% Pickup and 50/50 blend here. (I'd run another clip at, say, 75% Mic/25% pickup, but I don't have the energy...lol).

IMO, the ATM350 Mic sounds so much better than the pickup/JD Aura.

I'm happy with the clip mic in its trial runs, and can use the Zoom A3 box to run the mic signal through my chain and all the functionality therein (DI, effects, mute/boost, etc.)

P.S. - I had to run both signals as "direct in" to soundcard- not ideal, and a bit flat sounding obviously.

Comments welcome.

IMO, a mic will always sound better than the Fishman System, at least until it howls or screams or finds a resonant frequency that booms every time you pluck the low b or d in a live reinforced setting.

I’ve always assumed the Fishman system was designed as a feed back beater, and it does that better than any other pickup or mic system out there, or at least that’s what I hear over and over. However, to your point JC, every room and gig setting is different, and having more tools in the tool box is a great idea. Sometimes acoustic, sometimes mic’d, sometimes plugged in, depending on the room.

I’m not completely satisfied with the sound of my Fishman setup which is dobro>JD Aura>Baggs parametric DI>Fishman Loudbox Artist. Always a little coarse, would like something more soothing to the ears. I can understand chasing the mic thing. I’d consider it but I’ve got this backing tracks/vocal harmony thing I’m working on and that’s plenty to mess with already!

Yeah, no argument Brian.

I’d use my same pedal board regardless of mic or pickup (or blend). The mic would plug directly into the Zoom A3 (bypassing the JD Aura). If the mic is giving problems, I’d simply turn 2 dials on the Zoom (zero out mic, and turn up pickup). In other words, the pickup/JD Aura signal is always hot, it’s my call on whether to use some, all, or none of it.

The ATM350 does have a 80Hz high-pass filter to deal with rumble closer to the source, so that’s good.

Some of you may know Ryan Wallen, an excellent player here with the David Mayfield Parade. He employs an ATM350 mic on his Harlow Jumbo to great effect on the regional festival and club circuit. No pickup. When I asked him about this, he said he is able to manage it with DI settings. Also, he wouldn’t dare alter his Harlow, hence the mic-only approach.

Thanks for the comparisons Jamie. It’s hard for me to discern a lot as I listen on my iPhone, but I do hear differences.

What I like about your double rig is that you have a parachute in a live setting should the Nashville pickup malfunction. But for myself, the simplicity of one guitar cord plugged into the guitar, one signal going to the pedal board, is why I really like the Fishman system by itself. I run mine (guitar > JD pedal> EQ pedal > delay/reverb>Fishman Loubox mini). I think the Fishman Loudbox with the DI (to the board) is a pretty darn good reproduction. And in a little bar (where my little band tends to play), not sure I could tell the difference if I was out front listening to my dobro mic’d, or “Fishman electric”.

I know that the system sure sounds plenty convincing when I hear Ickes or Douglas play live with it.

You wrote:

>>Some of you may know Ryan Wallen, an excellent player here with the David Mayfield Parade. He employs an ATM350 mic on his Harlow Jumbo to great effect on the regional festival and club circuit. No pickup. When I asked him about this, he said he is able to manage it with DI settings. Also, he wouldn’t dare alter his Harlow, hence the mic-only approach.<<

I can totally relate to that. I have a ‘Tim-built’ Scheerhorn that I won’t put the Fishman pick up in. Afraid to. The ATM350 would be a good answer for that.

I have the Nashville pu in a Leadbetter signature (Gibson) Dobro that is maple and bright, and it’s a great bar guitar. Despite the mediocre reputation of that guitar, I love it, especially as plug-and-play. And I’m not fretting (ahem;-) about it in a bar full of celebratory guzzlers.

The Fishman system, by itself, sure sounds good on this Witcher demo

youtu.be/tGK0pTzQ91Q?feature=shared

Anyhow, I appreciate your experiments, and isn’t it nice not to have to play stationary to a mic, with, as Jerry Douglas says, “your feet nailed to the floor”.

Thanks for sharing your system, Jaime. I've been wanting to get my hands on a gooseneck condenser and do the mic + pickup blend myself, but it's a bit cost prohibitive right now. Sometimes I'll do a dynamic mic (Sennheiser e 935 has been working decently) and also give the sound tech a line from my Aura + LR Baggs Para Acoustic so that they can blend to taste. I'd like to have control over the blend myself, and also be able to move around on festival stages.