Hey Joe, whatever happened to your dead-ish string issue with your Nati-horn? Did National give you some help?

Well, I went down to San Louis Obispo and they were very accommodating. They kept it overnight and checked and made adjustments on the set up. I'm still not happy with the A note on the 7th fret. I played a Beard Jerry Douglas model today at Gryphon and to my surprise that issue was not there. That's why I was asking about the cone.

I can get it to sound like the notes next to it but it takes a lot of bar manipulation and back picking instead of thumb picking.???????

It's like playing a grand piano but on only one of the notes there is a thumbtack.

I had a Beard Legend cone put in my maple Natl Scheerhorn when luthier Byrl Murdock did a refresh setup. It brought better punch and attack to the instrument, to my ears.

Granted, the Scheerhorn cone was already several years old by that point, so maybe not a fair comparison.

At his shop, we tested the instrument with both cones. We both agreed the Beard cone sounded better - punchier.

That said, not sure whether a cone swap would solve your specific issue. That’s a puzzler.

I no longer have the Natl Scheerhorn so I can’t test this…

But I do recall occasionally getting “hollow” notes on the top string at 7th and 12th frets. No idea of the physics behind that. And it didn’t happen all the time.

Switching string brands and/or trying a higher mass bar (if yours is light or medium weight) might be worthwhile experiment.

Exactly, hollow sounding notes. Thanks for replying.

I use a Schrubb #3 tone bar. I would like to try a Sheerhorn if I could find one.

Are you using a .016 gauge top string? If yes, try a .017.

Your Shubb SP3 is a modest 5 ounces. A slightly heavier bar (like the 5.8 ounce SP2) might be worth trying.

If it were me I’d try those less expensive and less intrusive options before swapping cones.

In any event, good luck with your troubleshooting.

Schubb

Thank You!

Your issue with the dead A note may be the frequency and not the string. I have one reso that is dead on the first string A note,fret 7, and the same note on the second string, fret 10. Another reso is dead on the first string at fret 12. You could try de-tuning the first string a whole tone and see if you get the same results.

That sounds exactly like what I'm experiencing. Is there a remedy to this?

What generates the frequency, is it primarily the cone?

The "frequency" is primarily generated by the barred position of the string. The primary function of the cone is amplification.

h

Thanks Howard, what would cause just one position on the fretboard to produce a tone that is somewhat shallow and dissonant.

Bunch of possible factors, some or none may be relevant.

It's all guess work until I(or someone) has the guitar on a work bench.

Sorry my answer is so obtuse. It's the best I can do from 3,000 miles away.

h

Yup, I'll be bringing it down to National Guitars in San Luis Obispo next week.

To answer the original question, I put a Beard Legend cone, a Beard #14 Adjustable Spider, and a Beard Shockwave bridge insert into my National Scheerhorn and it made a world of difference. I was not at all happy with the sound when I got the guitar. It was used when I bought it but it looked unplayed. After the switch to the Beard internals, I'm quite happy with it. For a little more than $200 it was well worth the money spent.

Well, I did not go to National Guitars in San Luis Obispo this week I chose to visit Gryphon in Palo Alto. As I suspected, it was not a fault with the guitar but rather physics. Brian, who manages the repair department gave me an education on overtones and harmonics and how they relate to my dobro. He had some great suggestions. Swap the .016 first string with a .017. Use a heavier bar. Rubber grommets on the strings behind the bridge.

I found that utilizing my Hipshot at all times applying a little pressure on all the strings definitely helps with managing overtones and gives the instrument a bit more punch and sustain.

Oh, didn’t realize you had a DoubleShot (and presumably a roller nut). Grommets are definitely a must-have, at least in my experience.

In extreme cases, you may also need to damp any stray overtones thrown off by the strings on the headstock side of the nut. Stuff some foam, rubber, or cloth against the back side of the nut, so that it contacts the underside of the strings where they angle in toward the tuners. If you find that helps, you can fashion something more aesthetically pleasing. (I had a Velcro strap/loop with foam inside that I used to use on my Natl Scheerhorn - it is not needed on my other Hipshot DoubleShot equipped guitars).

My only other suggestion is to try picking a tad bit more to the left of the bridge, where you get less brightness.